Tsitra PARK & Shawn NAYAR
Shawn: “without the whirlwind of energy around me, I had to look inwards to find a way to drive me forward, and to translate that into an artwork that was accessible in this day and age. So transform all my work into digital work.”
Tsitra: “the biggest change to adapt to was making work internally, there was a lot of insular thinking, as opposed to being a part of something bigger. We are probably creating the most interesting dialogue in the every day, there are constant pivots and we are constantly aware of them.”
With a combined interest in communication and digital aesthetics, Tsitra Park and Shawn Nayar’s curatorial venture [INSERT ART HERE] develops emerging ideas and methods of making art to create an intimate and engaging experience in a time of isolation.
[INSERT ART HERE]
Curated by Shawn Nayar and Tsitra Park
Featuring: Claire Bath, Amelia Clark, Emmanuelle Garcia, Fiona Gordon, Ellie Home, Tabi Hull, Jesse Klassen, Roibí O’Rua, Katherine Stanley, Saffy Stott, and Rowan Walker.
[INSERT ART HERE] is an online exhibition hosted on Zoom. Between the 12th and the 14th of March, the event featured 13 artists across Europe and North America, each combining a green morph suit with Zoom green-screen technology to embody their work in new ways.
[INSERT ART HERE] website with more information that you can access here:
Shawn Nayar is a practising artist and curator from India who is currently based in Newcastle upon Tyne. His practice traverses digital platforms and media to explore queer and erotic club culture. Amalgamating personal experiences from the club scene with a deeper exploration into the role of POC within the gay community, Shawn creates work to depict and engage a community isolated due to lockdown.
Tsitra Park negotiates dialogues of privacy and identity in the realm of social media, with work that interrogates the role of the individual and art-making in the digital context. Based in Edinburgh, they use their curatorial and art practice as a means by which to engage and unpack new contexts as art and artists adapt to an evolving world.
Shawn Nayar 是一位来自印度的实验艺术家、策展人，目前居住于泰恩河(Tyne)畔的纽卡斯尔(Newcastle)。其艺术创作致力于，跨越不同的数字媒体平台，对“酷儿”(Queer)与 “色情俱乐部” (erotic club）等文化领域进行探索。
Interviewer: Hello everyone, and welcome to R-Lab and our interviews. My name is Velia Cavallini and I’m here with Tsitra Park and Shawn Nayar, and I’ll let them introduce themselves.
Interviewer: 大家好，欢迎大家来到R-Lab的采访环节，我的名字是Velia Cavallini，我将采访的是 Tsitra Park 和 Shawn Nayar，接下来让他们为大家做一下自我介绍。
Tsitra: Hi, I’m Tsitra Park, I’m currently based in Edinburgh, I am an artist and curator and I work with ideas of dialogue between social media and the public sphere at the moment. Together with Shawn Nayar we created [INSERT ART HERE].
Tsitra: 大家好，我是Tsitra Park, 目前居住于爱丁堡，我是一名艺术家和策展人，目前我致力于社交媒体 和公共领域之间的对话。我与Shawn Nayar一起创作了[INSERT ART HERE] 。
Shawn: My name is Shawn Nayar. I am an artist from India who is currently based in Newcastle upon Tyne in England and my practice is really interested in queer culture, particularly in queer club culture. And I look and research and explore the place that people of colour have within the gay community and within this really vibrant culture. And yes, together with Tsitra we’ve worked really hard to create [INSERT ART HERE]
Shawn: 我的名字是Shawn Nayar. 我是一位来自印度的艺术家，目前在英国泰恩河畔的纽卡斯尔工作，我对酷儿文化非常感兴趣，特别是酷儿俱乐部文化。我致力于观察、研究和探索有色人种在同性恋社区和这个充满活力的文化中的地位。并且，如你所⻅，我和Tsitra一起创造了 [INSERT ART HERE]
I: For the first few minutes we’re going to focus on your lives as and then we’re going to go into discussing your artwork. So, how did you organize your life and your work during this pandemic?
S: I guess during this pandemic it was a lot about trying to find the artwork that drove me. Before I was surrounded in this really lovely chaos of the art world, there was um inspiration everywhere from art galleries to people around you and suddenly just being isolated and alone without all of this whirlwind of energy to keep driving you forward you have to have to look inwards to find a way to drive me forward. So it was a lot about studying myself and finding a way to translate that into artwork that was accessible in this isolated age so transforming my work into digital work.
T: I found that it took a little time to get used to work in the pandemic and I think my immediate response was to develop a sort of routine and just to do something, to create work and not necessarily think about what I was making, or what I was trying to make, and just doing. And that developed then into ideas.
I: And what do you think is the biggest change that you had to go through, or the biggest change that you have found yourself stumbling into?
T: I’d say that the biggest change has been the lack of everyday communication that you never really planned with people, the kind of the interactions when you’d just be in the studio and someone would walk past, or just on your daily commute where you’d see someone doing something weird that will kind of stem your brain into thinking different things. And the change has been that you’re making work, like Shawn said, internally a lot, so there’s a lot of insular thinking as opposed to being part of something bigger.
T: 我想说最大的变化是，你从未真正计划过的并且一直缺失的与人的日常交流，例如，当你在演播室里 有人走过时的那种寒暄与互动，或者只是在你每天上下班的路上，你会看到有人做一些奇怪的事情，这 会吸引你的注意并且让你的大脑因为这些事开始思考不同的事情。另外，改变是你在做的工作，就像肖 恩说的，在内心中做了很多工作。所以有很多孤立的想法，而不是成为更大事情的一部分。
S: I think the biggest change for me is that I’ve been actively seeking out communication and talking to other artists. Because initially I was taking, like as Tsitra said, those walks through the studios and seeing something which sparks your brain, just random conversations in the hallway. I completely took those for granted, so now when I was completely deprived of all of those I’ve been actively trying to recapture that. So it’s been calling artists to have meetings, randomly outreach, messaging and such. Essentially, it’s me bombarding all the artists I know being like ‘hi how are you’ and trying to force them into having dialogues just to keep conversations going, to get those cogs really going. Even if it’s not even at an art level, even just a social level, just to get some sort of communication going.
S: 我认为对我来说最大的改变是，我一直在积极寻求与其他艺术家的交流和沟通。因为一开始我就像 Tsitra说的那样，在工作室里走来走去，看到一些能激发你大脑的东⻄，只是在走廊里随意交谈。我认为沟通与交流是理所当然的，所以当我被完全剥夺了这些时，我一直在积极尝试重新夺回。所以我一直在给艺术家们打电话，让他们开会，随机宣传，传递信息等等。从本质上说，是我炮轰所有我认识的艺术家，像“嗨，你好吗”，并试图迫使他们进行对话，只是为了让我们的对话继续下去，让那些⻮轮继续转动。即使不是在艺术层面，只是社会层面，也要进行某种交流。
T: I think really grabbing onto the digital sphere as well, and like bouncing off what Shawn said is quite important in that, how do we still re-establish that connection that we’ve kind of lost. So I think uh both of us have been seeing how we can use this new world to our advantage.
T: I mean, I think that the world is constantly changing anyway isn’t it? And I think actually what’s funny about this is that there was one big change, and now it feels like the world isn’t really changing. So you’re much more aware of your own pivots, because we’re probably creating the most interesting dialogue in the everyday. So I definitely think that there are constant pivots, and we’re constantly aware of them, because we’re now our own stimulus and our own world, in a sense.
S: I have definitely noticed that my pivots change depending on my emotions, and how I’m feeling. Because I’m always trying to have this outrageous outgoing-ness, but then whenever I’m feeling down or I just got a lot of work that I need to do, I have this recluse and my pivot becomes internal. I’m like ‘okay, I’ve got this work that I need to do, that I need to develop’. So, it sort of comes in, and then I want to reach out again, get some more inspiration. It’s definitely oscillating, depending on how I’m feeling between the internal and the external. And that’s definitely a really important, pivotal change during this pandemic.
S: 我确实注意到，我的“转变”会随着我的情绪和感觉而变化。因为我总是想让自己变得很外向，但每当 我情绪低落或者有很多工作要做的时候，我就会有一个隐居的地方，我的“转变”就会变成内在的。我会说‘好吧，我有工作要做，要发展’。所以，它到来了，然后我想再次伸出援手，得到更多的灵感。它肯定是振聋发聩的，这取决于我对内在和外在的感觉。在这次疫情期间，这无疑是一个非常重要的关键性变化。
I: So, as artists, what is your most proud creation since the beginning of the pandemic?
S: Honestly, [INSERT ART HERE], and for me personally another project that I’m doing, Freaky Deeks. For both of them it’s less about the work – the work is still amazing and I love what I’ve got out there – but what has really drawn me into it has been the audience, and the artist networks that we’ve created, so the places where artists can talk together, create work together, collaborate, talk. And even audiences, using platforms to see our work but to also talk amongst each other. So, I think that’s what I’m most proud of, creating the networks between audiences and artists, for sure.
S: 老实讲，[INSERT ART HERE], 我同时也在做另一个项目叫Freaky Deeks。对我们来说，令人惊叹并不是作品最重要的，我喜欢的是，我在项目中获得的意义，其中真正吸引我的是观众，以及我们创建的艺术家网络。艺术家可以在这里一起交谈，一起创作，合作，交谈。即使是观众，也可以通过平台观看我们的作品，也可以相互交流。所以，我想这是我最自豪的，即创造观众和艺术家之间的网络。
T: I think that would stand for both of us. [INSERT ART HERE] has been a big part of both of our works this year, it has kind of transformed the way that our own individual practices work, but also the way that we interact with others. And I feel like the idea has caused others to kind of have a bounce point as well and to reconsider their own practice. And we’ve had a lot of feedback from that which has felt really great. So, I’d say that’s what we’re both most proud of, hence why we wanted to put forwards for R-Lab.
T: 我想这对我们俩都有好处。今年的 [INSERT ART HERE] 是我们两个作品的重要组成部分，它在某种程度上改变了我们个人实践的方式，也改变了我们与他人互动的方式。我觉得这个想法让其他人也有了一个“转变”，并能重新考虑自己的做法。我们收到了很多反馈，感觉非常棒。所以，我想说，这是我们最引以为豪的，所以我们想将其展示在R-Lab线上展览中。
I: Thank you for that! So, you talked about [INSERT ART HERE]. When did you start working on it? And if you could just describe the project to me.
I: 谢谢你们!那么，你们谈到了 [INSERT ART HERE]。你们是什么时候开始创做这个项目的?你们能否向我描述一下这个项目？
T: We started it and it was kind of an idea that originated back November (2020). We were just thinking, what can we do with this new space? I was so frustrated about this constant thing ‘well it’s not real exhibition space though’ and ‘oh you know when we get back to the whatever’. And it was just like, we knew we’d be in it for a while so, what can we do to create that sort of atmosphere that feels like it’s a one-time only thing, that used to be there but whatever. And also, I was playing with this idea of the artist compared to the artwork and that relationship. So Shawn and I had a walk and we were brainstorming this idea, about what if we used like the green morph-suits and the Zoom technology – because we’ve been using Zoom so much – to kind of get the artist to embody their own work, so they become their own exhibition space. Because it felt like the artists will see their work anyway but it was interesting to play with that relationship, and then bring it to an audience on Zoom, which almost feels like an intimate platform as well, that doesn’t replace or stand in for the physical exhibition space but it’s something of its own accord.
T: 我们这个想法源于2020年11月。当时我们在想，我们能在这个新时代做什么?我对这不断发生的事 情感到非常沮丧，比如“虽然这不是真正的展览空间”和“哦，你知道我们什么时候回来”。就像，我们知道我们会在里面呆上一段时间，那么，我们能做些什么来创造那种感觉就像是一次性的东⻄，曾经在那 里，但不管以后怎样。而且，我把艺术家的这个想法和艺术作品以及两者之间的关系相比较。所以Shawn和我散了散步，我们在集思广益地讨论这个想法，如果我们使用绿色变形套装和变焦技术—— 因为我们一直在使用变焦技术——让艺术家体现他们自己的作品，让他们成为他们自己的展览空间。因 为感觉艺术家们无论如何都会看到他们的作品，这种关系很有趣，把它带到Zoom上的观众面前，这几乎感觉像是一个亲密的平台，它不会取代或代替实体展览空间，它本身就是一种和谐。
S: Yeah, and I think as soon as Tsitra brought up these ideas, especially using Zoom in an unconventional way to bring audience and artists together, my mind instantly just went forward and I was like ‘okay, this is such a great idea, it’s so visually striking’. So, what really got me invested in the project were these really strong visuals and I was like ‘I know how to take this forward, and how to reach our audiences’. So in my mind I was instantly thinking about crazy posters, with these green morph-suits, paired with high art, or just our features in the green. So, what really sold me on the project was really the visual medium that we would use to bring our audience together. That was instantly what got me interested, and I guess it was like a snowball going down the hill. Tsitra just had this idea of using Zoom and I was like ‘let’s do this on social media!’. And these crazy ideas were just building and building and building until finally just became this big fascinating project that we just had to do something with!
因此，真正让我投入到这个项目中的是这些非常强烈的视觉效果，就像‘我知道如何推进这一点，以及如何接触我们的观众’。所以在我的脑海里，我立刻想到了疯狂的海报，这些绿色变形服，搭配高雅艺术，或者只是我们以绿色为特征。所以，在这个项目上真正吸引我的是我们用来把观众聚集在一起的视 觉媒介。这一点立刻引起了我的兴趣，我想这就像一个滚下山的雪球。Tsitra刚想到使用Zoom，我就想 ‘让我们在社交媒体上做这个吧!’. 这些疯狂的想法一直在我们的脑海中构建，最终变成了一个我们不得不做点什么的大项目!
I: And you worked with quite a few artists, right?
T: Yeah! We worked with 13 artists between Europe and North America, it was was great experience being able to meet new people in that way, and share ideas.
I: Did you all know each other before or did you just collect new artists along the way?
S: It was a lovely mix of both. We had an open call which we distributed amongst our university, but also on Instagram and Facebook. So, we had people that we knew applying and we also had people who we had no idea about applying from Brussels and from North America, and we were so fascinated by this response. It was a really interesting mix of people that we knew but also people we had no idea about. And no matter what level we knew them at, being able to relate to this idea of wanting to create art really helped to create this awesome starting point to build a really interesting dialogue with them.
I: And how did you coordinate with them? Did you have set instructions or was it just ‘okay, it’s going to be green screen technology’ and then you left artistic freedom to all of them?
T: We gave them a lot of freedom; they developed the idea with us really. We kind of started the project wanting it to be a collaboration, we had this idea to embody your own artwork, but immediately you put it out to people and you get ideas that you didn’t have before. People wanted to use green paint, green clothes, and we thought as long as it’s your body so that you’re still embodying it and not taking it away from that, then beyond that people really went a bit wild. And that’s why you’ve got such a range of artworks in it, which is really great. It was so exciting to see where people would take it.
T: 我们给了他们很大的自由;他们和我们一起发展和完善了这个想法。我们有点想把它作为一个合作项目，我们用这个想法来体现自己的艺术作品，你⻢上把它展现给人们，并得到以前没有的想法。人们想用绿色的颜料，绿色的衣服，我们认为只要是你的身体都可以，所以你需要去体现它，而不是把它从那 拿走，然后超越，人们真的有点疯狂。这就是为什么有这么多的艺术品在里面，真的很棒。看到人们把它带到各处真是太令人兴奋了。
S: Yeah, because I think as soon as we started getting applications in from the open call, and people with their really interesting ideas beyond just the morph-suits, like as Tsitra said green paints green clothes and different ways of embodying their artwork through performance, through digital paintings, I think we just didn’t realize that this could be so much more. So, we did everything we could to really help the artists to reach their own vision, we did a whole bunch of research as to how we can use Zoom, we looked into webinars, we looked into green screen, the best way to people for up to upload their work, to record their work. Essentially we aimed to provide as much support to our artists as we could, showing them all the options available and discussing their work with them and being and then find out ‘this will work best with your work’, and then watching them take it forward. So it was just a really interesting back and forth to seeing the artist’s ideas and then talking about the platform and how to take it forward, to seeing the work really grow.
S: 是的，我认为，当我们开始从开放电话中获得人们的作品申请时，大家的想法都很有趣。就像Tsitra 所说，不仅仅是变形服，用绿色颜料绿色衣服和通过表演，通过数字绘画来体现他们的艺术作 品，这些不同的呈现方式，我想我们只是没有意识到还有更多可能性。所以，我们尽我们所能帮助艺术 家们达到他们自己想要的视觉呈现，我们做了一系列的研究，关于如何使用Zoom，我们看了网络研讨会，我们看了绿屏，这是让人们上传他们的作品和记录他们的作品的最好方式。从本质上说，我们的目 标是为我们的艺术家提供尽可能多的支持，向他们展示所有可用的选项，并与他们讨论工作，然后发现 “这将使你的工作变得最有效”，然后看着他们向前推进。因此，这是一个非常有趣的过程，看到艺术家们的想法，然后讨论平台和如何向前推进，从而看到作品真正成⻓。
I: That’s fantastic. So, of course this as an artwork, as a project is strictly connected to the pandemic because we have the technology we’ve been using, and it’s all online. Do you think that something similar could have come up in a non-pandemic situation? In an alternative timeline, basically. Or do you think that – of course it would have been different but – would you have had the original thought if not for this global situation?
T: I think it could have emerged, but I don’t know if it would have. There’s a great connection of this kind of green suit to digital, and I just know personally, I knew Shawn was using kind of digital platform so it’s definitely something that I was perhaps progressing into, but the pandemic shot me into thinking this is actually maybe the most useful thing to be doing rather than faffing about with other mediums. So I don’t know, I think it may have emerged but perhaps a little bit later.
S: I think definitely, at least from my personal perspective about creating artworks. At least for me it was a lot about creating our artworks for a space. So knowing that we’ve got this physical space, how do we fill this, how do I put my digital arts into the space? For [INSERT ART HERE] if not for the pandemic we definitely would have considered a physical space like ‘okay so we’ve got this green screen technology, how do we translate this to a gallery space? Do we show our screen on the wall?’ So it definitely would have been this digital idea, but rooted in the physical. And [with] the pandemic we decided to just do away with all of that, because especially for this idea it was a lot about the digital. So we did away with one extra step and allowed us to focus on what we really want to get across.
S: 我想是肯定的，至少从我个人的⻆度来看是这样的。对我来说，这是关于我们艺术创造的空间。所以知道我们有这个物理空间，我们如何填补这个空间，我如何把我的数字艺术放入这个空间?对于[INSERT ART HERE] ，如果不是疫情，我们肯定会考虑一个物理空间，比如我们有这个绿色屏幕技术，我们怎么把它转换成画廊空间?我们会在墙上展示我们的屏幕吗?所以这肯定是一个数字化的想法，但它植根于物理。在疫情之后，我们决定放弃这些，因为对于这个想法来说，它更多的是关于数字 的。所以我们多走了一步，并专注于我们真正想要的东⻄。
I: Have your feelings about art changed since your first encounter with it? And has it changed with the pandemic?
S: I’ve definitely been exploring new mediums, even though before the pandemic I was exploring digital art it was more about all right how do I transform this, how do I put this into a gallery space. But now because of the pandemic we’ve had to use new platforms rather than the gallery space to show our work. From there my work has been a lot about using platforms, and then transforming platforms as well, so using a platform as a medium, manipulating it to become an artwork.
I think definitely the pandemic has really encouraged me to look at new mediums, especially digital mediums, and look for ones which aren’t necessarily our mediums. So, even looking at platforms and things which you won’t really consider something you can manipulate in an artistic way, I really push myself to m create something new in this new digital world.
S: 我肯定一直在探索新的媒介，即使在疫情之前，我也一直在探索数字艺术，更多的是关于如何改造 数字艺术，如何把数字艺术放到画廊空间。但现在由于疫情，我们不得不使用新的平台而不是画廊空间 来展示我们的作品。从那以后，我的工作一直是关于使用平台，然后转换平台，所以使用平台作为媒介，操纵它成为一件艺术品。这场疫情确实鼓励我去寻找新的媒介，尤其是数字媒介，寻找那些不一定是我们的媒介。所以，即使是 在平台和东⻄，你不会真的认为你可以用一种艺术的方式操纵，我真的推动自己创造一些新的东⻄在这个新的数字世界。
T: I think for me personally I found that I’ve been really questioning the role of art, rather as in the public sphere but bringing that then into the private, and where does it stand there, and what’s its use and purpose, and how do we interact with it when you know it’s from your own home and in your own personal environment. And also the role of the artist and curator, and the interaction of public and private sphere, and all the different roles of art as a way of expressing emotions. But also as an audience member, how do you receive it on a personal level. And so it’s just been questioning that and how we can play with context in relation to that.
T: 我个人认为我发现我一直在质疑艺术的作用，艺术更像是在公共领域，但把它带到了私人领域，它站在那里，它的用途和目的是什么，当你知道它来自你自己的家，在你自己的个人环境中，我们如何与它互动。艺术家和策展人的⻆色，公共领域和私人领域的互动，以及艺术作为表达情感方式的各种不同 ⻆色。但是作为一个听众，你是如何从个人的⻆度来接受它的。所以我们一直在质疑这个问题，以及我们如何处理与之相关的语境。
I: Yeah because I suppose that the pandemic has accelerated everything, because for years now we’ve been moving towards the digital world, but it has accelerated everything. And now of course we are kind of forced to have everything online, in this very weird space that doesn’t really exist.
I: 是的，我认为疫情加速了一切，因为多年来我们一直在向数字世界迈进，但它加速了这一切。当 然，我们现在不得不把所有东⻄都放到网上，在这个非常奇怪的空间里，其实并不存在。
S: Because technology advances so quickly, so these objects like VHS and CDs, it becomes this peak and then just recedes and disappears, and now it’s become completely digital in this world that it doesn’t really exist it’s not physical. I guess the pandemic really helped to acknowledge these new objects and these new mediums and materials which don’t exist in the physical realm, but because of the pandemic we had to use them and sort of encourage the new way of thinking and approaching art and objects.
S: 因为技术进步如此之快，所以像VHS和CD这样的物体，它变成了一个峰值，然后就消失了，现在它在这个世界上变成了完全数字化的，它不存在，它不是物理的。我想疫情真的帮助我们认识了这些新的物体，这些新的媒介和材料，它们在物质世界中是不存在的，但是由于疫情，我们不得不使用它们， 并且某种程度上鼓励了新的思维方式和接近艺术和物体的方式。
T: It’s all about what you notice and what your way of thinking is, because compared to, rather than a physical object, it’s interesting because it’s becoming more about ideas and art as a way of sharing ideas, and art as a way to propel technology as well.
I: Where do you think [INSERT ART HERE] stands in this? Because of course you have the artists basically disappearing into their own work.
I: 很多观点认为艺术家们基本上消失在他们自己的作品中，你认为[INSERT ART HERE] 在这方面有何意义?
T: Yes and no. I would say it’s a relationship between the art and the artwork. The artist is very much present in the piece because it’s through their shape, through their form that you experience the artwork. So I think in a way the audience sees the artist more than they would have otherwise. And I think Zoom as a platform, as I mentioned I think it’s quite intimate, because I never really facetimed people before the pandemic if I wasn’t particularly close with them, and I still think that people do think it’s a bit odd to be face to face with someone on a call. There’s something about it that feels kind of close, and we’re all getting used to it now but I think there’s still a bit of that in [INSERT ART HERE] and we tried to show that with the private slots. We had private sessions where the artists would have a much smaller audience, and you feel like you’re able to converse with them a bit more, or you experience that human to human rather than being in a white empty room with just a piece of artwork and a silent artist.
T: 是也不是。我认为这是艺术和艺术品之间的关系。艺术家在这件作品中是非常真实的，因为通过他们的形状，通过他们的形式，你可以体验到这件艺术品。因此，我认为在某种程度上，观众比其他人更能看到艺术家。我认为Zoom作为一个平台，正如我提到的，我认为它非常亲密，因为我从来没有在疫情之前真正与人们对视，如果我不是特别接近他们，我依旧觉得人们认为在电话中与某人面对面有点奇怪。但是我们现在都已经习惯了，但我认为在 [INSERT ART HERE] 中还是有一点类似的地方，我们试着用私人会议沟通来展示这一点。我们有私人会议，在那里，艺术家的观众会少得多，你会觉得你能和他们多交谈一点，或者你体验到人与人之间的交流，而不是在一个只有一件艺术品和一个沉默的艺术家的白色空房间里。
S: And I guess another way of putting it would be that initially you’d have the artist and the artwork, and usually they would exist as two different entities. You have the artwork that exists in the gallery space which is up for purchase, and you see the artwork a different way, and the artist you’d approach a different way they explore their work through this and they talk about it. So they exist as two quite different entities, I guess with [INSERT ART HERE] we really wanted to focus on the creation and the unity of both of them. Through [INSERT ART HERE] using Zoom we are able to embrace the relationship between the artists and the artwork, so how they see their work, how they react to their work. And it just became this fluid amalgamation of the two. And which the digital world allowed us to represent and showcase.
S: 我想另一种说法是，一开始你会有艺术家和艺术品，通常它们会作为两个不同的实体存在。你有一件艺术品存在于画廊里，你可以购买，你可以用不同的方式看到艺术品，你接触的艺术家也可以用不同的方式探索和谈论他们的作品。所以它们是作为两个完全不同的实体存在的，我想通过[INSERT ART HERE]把重点放在两者的创造和统一上。通过[INSERT ART HERE]使用Zoom，我们能够理解艺术家和艺术品之间的关系，从而了解他们如何看待自己的作品，如何对自己的作品做出反应。这就变成了两者的流动融合。数字世界让我们得以表现和展示。
T: It’s conversive. it’s a kind of dialogue. There’s art and technology, and art and artist, and audience and artists and it’s like bringing those conversations and encouraging them.
I: And do you think that this moving of the arts online will stand after the pandemic? Or do you think that the art world will abandon the online world after this pandemic? How do you see the next pivot for the arts?
S: I see it as definitely advancing as a separate avenue. Obviously, people are so used to this new normal, but they sort of idealised the past as well because it was when people could meet and talk in person. And it’s the same for art. People like being able to go to a gallery and seeing their favourite painting up in front of them. So people do want to go back, so I definitely see the physical art world still being a big important part, but the pandemic has definitely highlighted that there is a digital route on which you can develop your artworks, that you’re not just tied to a physical space to show your work. You can take it to online platforms, you can show it to a different audience that’s not just based in your city, you can show your art to the world, potentially, through online platforms. And even now with the current craze of NFTs and new digital currencies to promote digital artworks, there definitely is a separate avenue of digital arts which will be progressing after this pandemic ends. At least I personally hope that it will be propelled forward, it won’t just sort of plateau, it’ll just keep going and being spurred on.
S: 我认为这绝对是一条独立的发展道路。很明显，人们已经习惯了这种新的常态，但他们也把过去理想化了，因为那时人们可以⻅面和交谈。艺术也是如此。人们喜欢去画廊看到他们最喜欢的画。所以人们的确想回到过去，我看到，物理艺术世界仍然是一个重要的组成部分，但这场疫情明确地强调，有一 条数字化的道路，你不仅仅局限于一个物理空间来展示你的作品，你可以开发新的数字化道路。你可以把它带到网上平台，你可以把它展示给不同城市的观众，你可以通过网络平台向世界展示你的艺术。即使是现在，随着当前NFT和新的数字货币的狂热，肯定有一个单独的途径以促进数字艺术作品，数字艺术将在这场疫情病结束后取得进展。至少我个人希望它能向前推进，它不仅仅是一个平台，它会继续前进。
T: I hope they develop as different branches, that the physical space isn’t completely forgotten and that the digital space keeps progressing as well. I think that different people have different needs for each one, and different spaces work differently for people, and say different things. And I think it’s just an interesting expansion of dialogue, and it’s an interesting realm to explore, but not to take away from the physical space either. I don’t think we should completely live all online.
I: Thank you Shawn and Tsitra, and thank you for joining us here at R-Lab. It was lovely to talk to you and thank you for showing us your work.
I: Shawn和Tsitra,谢谢你们参与R-Lab的访谈，非常高兴能和你们交流并且谢谢你们愿意向R-Lab平台 的观众展示你们的作品
T: Thank you so much!
S: Yes, thank you so much for having us.
Host: Velia CAVALLINI
Contact Person: Velia CAVALLINI
Planner: Velia CAVALLINI
Text: Velia CAVALLINI
Translator: Jiaqi GAO
Proofreading: Calum BAIRD