Zidian YAN 晏资典

Rust-like elements often appear in my art, like scars, negative effects, etc. My thinking in using these elements is: when we’re faced with some issues, recognising their existence and balancing their relationships with us is precisely what we should do.

我的艺术创作中经常会出现锈类元素，类似于伤痕、负面影响等等。对于这些元素的运用，我想表达的是：认可它、承认它的存在并平衡它，才是我们面对问题时所应该做的。

Biography

As a young artist in the field of contemporary art, Zidian YAN aims to consider the social situation by combining his visual language and the realisation of philosophy.

YAN hopes to break with the constraints of traditional Chinese aesthetics and explore the future context of the Art world by communicating through a combination of Western and Chinese culture.

He wants his works to build a world of “Poetic Utopia”, and his main artistic intention is to promote “poetic revolution” and “rebuilding life”. He, therefore, regards artwork as a reflection of intention and the content involved in it as evidence of his artistic concepts. He also believes that, as a medium, the form of artwork is merely about presenting meanings.

晏资典作为一名当代青年艺术家，其致力于通过视觉艺术语言与中西哲学 话语进行融合，从而表达当对下社会环境思考。并希望以东西方文化交流为手段，摆 脱中国传统审美的桎梏，并对艺术世界未来的发展语境进行探索。 他希望让作品进入到一个“更为诗意的乌托邦世界”，并以“诗性的革命”以及“重塑生 活”为创作的主要意图。他认为，艺术作品其实是一种意图的再现，作品所表达出的内 容才是艺术观念的见证，而形式仅作为传达观念的介质存在。

Interview

The names would be abbreviated as “Ifance” (Ifance FAN) and “YAN” (Zidian YAN).

(之后姓名分别写为“范惠冰”、“晏资典”)

Ifance: Could you tell us how did you organize your work and life? Like, what have you been up to lately during the pandemic? And was there any aspect of your work and life that has changed by the pandemic?

YAN: During the pandemic, I spent most of my time painting at home, and my social life was less than normal. Recently, I’m trying to change myself and breaking through some limitations, in order to explore some new views. The change might be that I had more awareness of the crisis, just as a Chinese old saying goes, “If we live with sorrow, we would die with happiness”. Therefore, being in such a serious circumstance, all of us should inspire ourselves to be more aware in order to deal with the challenge.

范惠冰：在新冠期间，你是如何组织工作和生活的？最近都在忙什么？与新冠之前有什么不同？

晏资典：在新冠期间，多数时间是居家以架上绘画为主。出门社交比以往较少。最近在尝试改变自己，突破自己，在不断探索新的自己。与疫情之前不一样的地方是更加有危机意识了，生于忧患死于安乐嘛。越是乱世越该用更好的状态去迎接挑战。

 

Ifance: Could you tell us about what kind of impact the pandemic might have on your art creation? such as the changes you‘ve experienced or discovered? or what could be taken as your Pivot during this period?

YAN: If we just talk about art creation, I have to say that actually, it might have more positive impacts. As the result of lockdown which directly caused by the pandemic, I’ve spent a quiet period at home by creating some oil paintings, or reading some poetry masterpieces and anthologies. As for my Pivot, it might be more about the new things that happened during this period, such as the process of engaging with the new stuff or new friends and understanding and accepting them as time went by. This was also presented in my paintings I’ve created with my heart.

范惠冰：这次疫情对你的艺术创作有怎样的影响？你经历过或发现的变化是什么？你认为自己在疫情下的的转折点是什么？

晏资典：其实疫情对我的艺术创作更多的是积极的影响。因为新冠直接导致户外活动都有感染的风险，所以我静心在室内创作油画为主，并且期间有阅读很多诗歌名著和文集。在创作过程中变化和转折点多为遇到新朋友，接触一些对于自己陌生的东西并且去了解和接纳。并呈现在自己赋予情感的作品画面中。

 

Ifance: Just mentioned that you read a lot of poems and anthologies at that time. Could you share them with us?

YAN: Yes, in particular, there will be more poetry anthologies recently. Like” Thus Spoke Zarathustra” by Nietzsche, and “Walden” by Henry David Thoreau. Interestingly, they were also in the stage of solitude in their lives when they wrote these masterpieces. Meanwhile, I’m reading books by Xiaobo Wang and Rainer Maria Rilke.

范惠冰：刚刚有提到当时读了很多诗歌和文集，可以跟大家分享一下吗？

晏资典：是的，特别是近期阅读的诗歌文集会比较多。比如尼采的查拉图斯特拉如是说， 比如卢梭的瓦尔登湖。有趣的是，他们写出这些神作之时也是处于人生中独处的阶段。还有在看王小波和里尔克的文字等等。

 

Ifance: During this special time, what has impressed you the most? does it have any connection with your intention of the artwork?

YAN: The thing that impressed me most was our attitude toward the pandemic. After the outbreak, we instantly implemented the lockdown strategy to control its spread. This attitude also could be found in the process of art creating similar: when we discovered a problem, the thing we need to do is not avoiding it, but to recognize it and solve it, I also express this opinion in my works.

范惠冰：在疫情这段特殊的时间里，令你感到印象最深刻的事是什么？这件事与你这次的创作初衷有什么联系吗？

晏资典：印象最深刻的是中国国内对疫情的控制严格且高效。和作品创作的联系有一点是相通的：我在画面中经常会出现锈类元素，类似伤痕、负面影响、病毒、污点等等。我们发现问题不去回避它，而是正视它、认可它、承认它的存在，并平衡它治理它。这点我在作品画面中也是如此表现的。

 

Ifance: What was the source of inspiration for these works? And when did you start two conceive it? What kind of relationships are involved among them?

YAN: The idea of the artworks mainly came from the phenomenon of the pandemic, my mood state, and the poems and articles I’d read at that time. Ideas could emerge in every moment of living a life. When these artworks were finished, virtually, it was not the same as its conception at first, because it’s varying with my feeling and thinking during my process of creation.

范惠冰：这些作品的灵感来源是？是从什么时候开始构思的？它们之间有什么联系？

晏资典：作品的灵感主要来源于疫情本身和当时的情绪状态和所读的诗歌和文章。构思会一直存在在生活的每一刻。作品完成时其实并不是构思时最初的样子，而是会随着自己情绪想法和思考的不断改变而改变。

 

Ifance: From the bonus scene in the video, it can be seen that you’ve changed to another idea just before creating. Why does this happen? What kind of information do you want to express by this?

YAN: The idea appeared after Easter. At first, I was focusing on experimenting with new materials to make a breakthrough of the scenes, and after attempts, I found that it was quite good. Therefore, this bonus scene was created and wasn’t public until one year after the outbreak. What I wanted to depict was not only that we were all affected by the time and the destiny, but also the clear moonshine, the bright sky, the endless sea, and the stars covered the sky, they were all in my mind.

范惠冰：从视频的彩蛋可以看出你在创作时提前有了不一样的构思，这个想法是在什么时候出现的呢？你想从中传递怎样的信息？

晏资典：想法出现在复活节之后。最开始是想着是实验新的材料让画面有所突破，但不断的尝试后发现效果不错。就因此埋下了这个彩蛋，直到疫情一年之后才公开。我想描绘的不止我们都被岁月和命运感染，还有记录我心中的皓月明空与星辰大海。

 

Ifance: Have you ever counted how many artworks were created during that time? Which one do you like best? What do you think should be the most difficult part during the whole creating process?

YAN: There were nearly 30 artworks, not just paintings, but also performed with the form of conceptual art and installation art. My favourite work is The sunshine is falling like dust when we are breathing quietly.

The most difficult part of the whole creating course was my mental issue. This was due to the fact of my standard of taking an artwork as completed because I wouldn’t think an artwork as finished unless I’ve passed the hurdle that emerged in my mind during its creation.

范惠冰：在疫情期间有没有统计过一共制作了多少件作品？你最喜欢的是哪一件？你觉得整个过程中最难的部分是？

晏资典：在疫情期间有创作大约近30件作品，不全是架上绘画，也有实验性的观念和装置。最喜欢的是《阳光如粉尘跌落 我们安静地呼吸》，整个过程中最难的一部分是在自己的心理问题。比如如何才能判定这幅作品已经画完，当心里没有过那道坎就会一直没有画完。

 

Ifance: Did these works capture or record the changes or influences that appeared during the pandemic? Could you tell me which one gave you the deepest feeling during the creation? and what its story was like?

YAN: It is true that these works recorded the changes in my thoughts. Cutting off the prosperous moon on the earth and my thought of never contacting initiatively was the most impressive one for me because I am not an active person in life and relationships, I always miss some of my friends, but wouldn’t contact them on my own. I can only miss them deeply in my mind.

范惠冰：这些作品中是否捕捉记录了在疫情期间内心所产生的变化或影响？哪件作品是在创作中给你感受最深的，能否再多讲讲这些作品背后的故事呢？

晏资典：是确实有记录疫情期间内心所产生的变化，《割下大地繁华的月亮 与我从不主动联系的惦记》是感受最深的，因为我在生活和感情中并不是一个很主动的人，常常会想起一些思念着的朋友，但不会去主动联系。只能放心里淡淡地惦记。

 

Ifance: Who are your favourite artists?

YAN: There are four artists. The first one is Anselm Kiefer, and then Joseph Beuys, Olafur Eliasson and Anish Kapoor.

范惠冰：你比较欣赏的艺术家是？

晏资典：一共有四位艺术家。基弗、博伊斯、埃利亚松、安尼施卡布尔。

 

Ifance: I have noticed that you’ve used the creating methods of paintings, installations, sculptures to reflect on the difficulties and considerations in your life. Is this the focus of your art creation? What are you thinking of when you selecting different methods to perform creation? What is the relationship between these artworks and your other works?

YAN: There are many ways of expressing my thoughts, and my focus is to purely express and vocalize my mind through those works. The perception that emerged from the dilemma is the most inspirational for creation. There are different creative methods but the purpose is the same.

范惠冰：我有注意到你的作品有通过绘画，装置，雕塑这些艺术创作方式来反思生活中的困境和感想，这是你的创作的关注点吗？你在进行不同的创作方式时是怎么思考的呢？这些作品和你的其他作品又有什么样的关系呢？

晏资典：创作的表达方式有很多种，关注点是想纯粹地表达和发声做作品。困境感悟是最能激发创作灵感的。有不同的创作方式但目的都是一样的。

 

Ifance: I’ve noticed that you held a solo exhibition online last year. Is there anything you want to share with the audience from this experience? What made you want to hold this exhibition? What do you think is the relationship between curation and creation?

YAN: Well, I’d like to share but I feel that I am still not good enough, I should put more energy into my creation to present better works. Haha, the reason for holding this online exhibition was because I had nothing to do during the epidemic, so I thought that I should make an annual summary for my whole-year creations. Maybe I would hold such an online exhibition every year in the future. Art creating is like the arm, and curatorial work is more of overall planning, summing up, like joints.

范惠冰：留意到你去年在线上做了个人作品展览，从这次经历中是有什么想与观众分享吗？是什么原因促使你想办这次的展览？你觉得策展和创作之间的关系是什么呢？

晏资典：想分享的是觉得自己还不够好，应该投入更多精力在创作中，呈现出更好的作品。哈哈哈哈办这次线上展的原因是因为疫情这一年什么其他事都没有做，创作总应该给自己做一个年度总结吧。可能以后每一年都会做一次这样的线上展吧。创作是生产像是手臂，策展的工作更多在于统筹总结归纳，像是关节。

 

Ifance: Since your first exposure to art, or before the special period, has your perception of art been changed? Is there anything you want to say to the artists? Especially the ones who are still in school.

YAN: My ultimate goal hasn’t been changed for more than ten years, what changed was my attitude towards the “rules of the game”. I want to say that, “This road might not be as easy as you imagined, so if you’re taking Art as a pure belief, just try your best to live your life.”

范惠冰：从第一次接触艺术开始，或者在新冠之前，你对艺术的感觉现在是否发生了变化？有没有什么话是想对其他艺术家说的？特别是还在校的艺术学者。

晏资典：最终的目标十几年了都没有改变，改变的看待这场“游戏规则”的态度。想对其他艺术家说：这条路可能没有想象中轻松，如果艺术也是你纯粹的信仰，那就努力生活吧。

Staff

Host: Ifance FAN
Contact Person: Ifance FAN
Planner: Ifance FAN
Text: Ifance FAN
Translator: Jiaqi GAO
Proofreading: Calum BAIRD

 

Apr 23, 2021

Xiaolei TIAN 田晓磊

The words “fragility” and “collapse” are often reflected in Xiaolei TIAN’s work, specifically, the sense of vulnerability and crisis that threatens to collapse. For him, the pandemic is the result of a chain of events, similar to a cascading reaction. No one realised at first that the virus would be so radioactive and that it would also lead to the interruption of all activities throughout society. Restrictions appear from country to country, people to people, and eventually, all life was messed up.

“脆弱“和“崩塌”这两个词时常体现在田晓磊的作品上，具体地说，是脆弱和有可能发生崩塌的危机感。对他来说，疫情是由一件事产生了许多链条，类似于一个连带反应。一开始谁都没有意识到这个病毒会有这么强的辐射性，还导致全社会中断了一切活动。国家与国家之间，人与人之间的限制，最后一切生活全都乱掉了。

Thrilling stabilization

惊险的稳定

The astronaut is a symbol of man’s exploration of himself or a human figure cultivated by the spirit of science. He is constantly exploring new planets, and when he gets to the next one, it becomes a ball light in a ballroom, but it slowly blows up like a self-cracking explosion. And when he goes to the next one, the last one is restored, and man is like a locust, passing and exploring one by one.

其中宇航员象征的就是人类对自己的一种探索，或者是一种科学精神培养出来的人类形象。他在不断得探索新的星球，走到下一个星球的时候，那个星球就变成了舞厅的球灯，但是它慢慢会自裂般得炸掉。而当他再次走到下一个的时候，上一个又恢复了，人就像一个蝗虫一样，一个个得去经过和探索。

Before reboot

重启之前

Even though they are dancing wildly, those two have started to take on distorted and dead features, and the background has changed from a starry sky to a blue screen, reflecting a kind of revelry before the reboot.

即使在狂欢跳舞，但是那两个人已经开始有扭曲和死机的特征，背景也由星空变成蓝屏，体现了一种重启之前的狂欢。

Sisyphus

西西弗斯

Islet

孤岛

Biography

Xiaolei TIAN: Young Chinese artist, a pioneering force in Chinese new media art

“The post-pandemic era may accelerate the arrival of the post-human era; the pandemic is actually accelerating the speed of man’s incubation in the virtual world, as well as man’s dependence on the internet, while also moving further towards a world like cyberpunk. In general, man is actually getting more comfortable with the evolution of machines and technology, and at the same time they are cycling faster and faster on man.”

田晓磊：中国青年艺术家，中国新媒体艺术的先锋力量

“后疫情时代可能会加速后人类时代的到来，疫情其实是加速人在虚拟世界的孵化速度，以及人对互联网的依赖程度，同时也向赛博朋克这样的世界更进一步。总的来说，人对机器，科技的进化其实也越来越适应了，同时它们对人的循环也越来越快了。”

Interview

The names are abbreviated as “Jackie”(Jackie GAO) and “TIAN”(Xiaolei TIAN)

下文中，人物姓名将被缩写为 “高”（高嘉齐）“田”（田晓磊）

Jackie: As R-Lab is an organisation that explores the transformation and changes in Art during the pandemic, so our discussion will focus on the potential discourse that the pandemic provides for the transformation of art.

First, have there been any changes in your life and work since the outbreak that have impacted you?

高：由于R-Lab是一个以后疫情视角，去探究艺术在经历疫情这一转折点时所发生的转向以及变化的组织，所以我们的话题会主要围绕疫情为艺术进行转向提供的潜在话语进行讨论。

那么首先，在疫情爆发后，您的生活和工作有发生一些另您印象比较深刻的变化吗?

TIAN: At the beginning it was very intense, but now I feel it has become very easier in Beijing, apart from that, sometimes, we still wear masks when going into public places.

田：一开始的时候会很强烈，但是现在我在北京感觉已经变得很微弱了，除了有时候大家在公共场所会戴口罩。

However, when the pandemic first broke out, the feeling of change was very noticeable, as if there was tension around us all the time. The city management also tended to be stricter and more closed off.  Whenever we went to some places, we needed to have proof of access and went through many checks which inevitably created more stress for us.

但疫情刚爆发时，变化的感觉非常强烈，仿佛时时刻刻都充满紧张感。城市管理也趋于严格和封闭，出入很多场所，都必须有相关的证明，并且还有很多环节，这也无形中为我们带来了更多压力。

This change has affected all aspects of society, the main impact was about traveling, and we all had to take activities indoors mostly. Everyone was like an island, seeking information with the outside world, and the only option had become the internet and our phones.

这种变化涉及到生活的方方面面，主要的影响就是出行，大家都基本在室内活动。所以每个人都像一座孤岛，在寻求跟外界的一个信息交流，工具就变成了互联网，和手机端。

Jackie: Right, we must be more proactive in order to connect with people.

高：对，我们要更主动一些才能和别人建立联系。

TIAN: Exactly. I think it is the same all over the world. During the pandemic, people’s emotions became negative, so we just had to go through such a lonely period. I was one who adapted quickly and was not too sensitive to this change. Then, I have made good use of this period because I was used to being alone, so instead I felt that I suddenly have plenty of time without so much strife.

田：对。 关于这个，我认为全球应该都是这样的。在疫情下，大家的情绪都会变得消极，所以我们就必须要经历这样一段孤独的时期。其实我是适应比较快的，对这种变化不是太敏感。我后来好好的利用了这段时间，因为我很习惯一个人呆着，所以反而觉得自己的时间突然变的非常充裕，没有那么多纷扰。

Jackie: Agreed, it needed to take a process and it might be negative at first.

高：对，这需要一个过程，一开始会比较消极。

TIAN: Exactly.

田：对，没错。

Jackie: Then after the pandemic, do you think your perception of art has changed compared to before? Like the focus of your Art creating or enjoying art.

高：那么在经历了疫情后，您认为您现在对于艺术的思考相较于疫情爆发前会有什么不 同吗?比如思考的重心，或者是关注的层面是否有所不同呢?

TIAN: I think the key words I am thinking about now are “fragility” and “collapse”. This may also be reflected in my work, specifically, the fragility of the status quo and the sense of crisis that there is a possibility of collapse. As the pandemic caused a series of events triggered by a single event, it is like a chain reaction. It was not acknowledged at the beginning that it would be so destructive, even leading to a state of almost stagnation throughout society. There were all sorts of restrictions between regions and between people, and eventually everything just went haywire.

田：我觉得我目前思考的关键词是脆弱和崩塌。这个也在作品上可能也会有一些体现，具体地说是，现状的脆弱和有可能发生崩塌的危机感。因为疫情是一件事引发的一系列事件，类似于一个连带反应。其实一开始也没有意识到这个病毒会有这么强的辐射性，甚至导致全社会几乎处于一个停滞状态。区域之间，人与人之间的存在各种限制，最后就一切都乱掉了。

It is as if our current situation cannot withstand any fluctuations, and a problem of any aspects could bring the whole society to a status of standstill. This vulnerability was much stronger than we thought. A problem in one area seemed to mean the whole world went wrong in an interconnected way. It felt like the current world order was not actually very solid, it only appeared stable on the surface, and it could not adapt to the change as quickly as we thought; like a wound, it takes a long time to heal, and its pain is global and continuous. So, I might rethink some of the topics about the sense of vulnerability, or the instability, etc.

我们的现状好像经不起任何的波动，任何一个层面出现了问题，就会导致整个社会发展停滞。这种脆弱性其实比我们想象中要强烈的多。一个地方出现了问题，全世界都会联动的出现问题。感觉本身井井有条的世界，其实并不是很坚固，只是表面看起来很稳定，而且它对变化的适应能力也没有想象的那么快，就像一个伤口一样，它需要很长的时间去调养，而且它的痛感是全球性持续的。 所以我可能会重新思考一些关于脆弱感的话题，或者是平衡崩溃和不稳定的关系等等。

Jackie: Yes, these two words are very concrete, and they are reflected in your work. In fact, I have noticed that you have used some visual expressions in many of your works, such as the LED gallery in Hangzhou, the ‘specimen form appeared on the flat screen’ presentation in Posthuman Zoo, and the ‘screen formalin’ concept. I think the concept of “screen formalin” is very clever, so how did you come up with the idea of using this kind of presentation? Do these works have a reflective effect on the context of the pandemic?

高：是的，我觉得这两个词非常的具象化，并且是您的作品当中有所体现的。其实我有注意到，您在自己的很多作品中都有运用到一些视觉性的表达手段， 类似于在杭州的led长廊，和《后人类动物园》中，这种在“二维屏幕上标本式”的呈现，以及“屏幕福尔马林”概念的提出都十分地巧妙，那么请问您是如何想到运用这种方式进行展示呢的?这些作品会对疫情这一语境有辐射作用吗?

TIAN: Actually, those works started as an attempt to do it inside a box, to create the screen itself as a space. I think that was a little proposition I gave myself or a little restriction. It was a spatial restriction so that it would be better organised. From a formalism point of view, I focus more on the spatial relationship of the content, that is, the relationship between the content itself and the container. Later, I felt that this was making patterns, so I created some of these imaginary patterns that I imagined to be related to post-humanism. Of course, it is a long-term project that will probably take a few years to develop and refine, and eventually it will become a series. And it will all be displayed side by side, probably in many boxes, each with a different object in it, and eventually it will be displayed like a museum and could be collected on screen.

田：其实那些形式一开始是想做在盒子里面，把屏幕本身当成一个空间来创造。我觉得这是我给自己的一个小命题，或者是一个小限制。那是一个空间上的限制，这样的话它会比较好的被整理。从形式感上来看，我会更着重于内容的空间关系，也就是内容本身跟容器的关系。到后来我就觉得这其实是在做标本，于是我就创造了一些我想象中的与后人类相关的这些假想标本。当然这是一个长期的计划，可能会用几年的时间去发展和完善，最后会变成一个系列。并且都会是并列展示的，可能有好多盒子，每一个盒子里都是不同的东西，最后会像一个博物馆一样进行展示，并且可以在屏幕中被收藏。

Jackie: I think this is a particularly great concept because including the ‘screen formalin’, which you mentioned earlier is a developing concept, which has porosity. What is also interesting is that long before the outbreak you proposed this concept, but once again when you look at it through the lens of the pandemic, its meaning has changed. I think this point also proves that the work does have an extensibility about it and a kind of prophetic quality too.

高：我觉得这个是一个特别好的概念，因为包括屏幕福尔马林，你刚才也提到它是一个发展中的概念，有多孔性的。同样有趣的是早在疫情爆发前其实您就提出过这个概念，但再次通过疫情的角度去看，它的意义又会发生变化，我觉得这一点也是证明这个作品确实有可延伸性和一定的预言性。

TIAN: Actually, I am better at working on the computer, which probably allows me to be more open and flexible than I would be. Because there are a lot of specific constraints, such as materials, costs, space, and time, and even a lot of mechanical or other specific problems, but on the computer, these are not really problems. In the future, it could be made into VR — VR is already being done, wearing 3D glasses, the world would be real, it’s like we are looking at exhibitions in a virtual museum, so the experience could be better.

田：我比较擅长在电脑上去创作，这可能会让我比在现实中更加放得开，或者更灵活一点。因为现实中有很多具体的限制，比如说材料，费用，空间和时间，甚至还有好多机械或者其他一些具体问题，但是如果在电脑中其实就不算问题了。现在展示出来的话，我觉得还不是最完美的状态，如果在未来，可以做成VR的—VR其实已经在做了，戴着3d眼镜看，那个世界它就是真实存在的，就真的是在逛一个虚拟的博物馆，这样体验感可能会更好一点。

Jackie: Right, so do you think the concept of ‘screen formalin’, is there some overlay or overlap of context between this concept and the pandemic?

高：对的，那么您认为屏幕福尔马林的概念，它和疫情有没有一些相覆盖的或者相重合的语境？

TIAN: The pandemic has catalysed the fulfillment of the concept.

田：疫情催化了这个事的发生。

Jackie: As an audience, from my point of view, the pandemic is a continuation of the concept of this series of works. You just said that the pandemic is akin to a push for the fulfilment of these ideas, which I think is indicative of the prophetic nature of the post-human perspective of this work, the pandemic is akin to a validation, which is also interesting.

高：以一个观者的角度来看，疫情其实会对这一系列作品的概念进行一个延续。您刚说疫情类似于推动了一这些观念的应验，我认为这是能体现出这个作品的后人类视角的预言性的，疫情类似于一场验证，这个也很有意思。

TIAN: Yes, the audiences are free to make associations. Although they might have different perspectives to what the artist initially thought, however, it is very normal and the artist would like the audiences to do so, to have various interpretations.

田：对，观众联想是很自由的。虽然这跟艺术家一开始的想法会有不同的角度，但其实这是特别正常的，而且艺术家也希望是这样的，拥有各种解读。

Jackie: It is. I think that is also one of the charms of art. Therefore, it has brought a lot of changes due to the pandemic, so what might be the most impressive change that the pandemic has imparted on the art world?

高：是的。我觉得这个也是艺术的魅力之一。那么，由于疫情带来了很多的转变，那么对于您来说，艺术界里面发生的，另您印象深刻变化是什么样的呢？

TIAN: I think it is the fact that there are more artworks online, or that people have a stronger desire to showcase it. It used to seem like people were a bit secretive and would not always post their ideas on public platforms. But then I found that people were trying to promote themselves in every way possible. However, there is probably so much information on the internet that even if you do speak up, you might not always be noticed. People only have a limited attention span and most of their attention was taken up by those platforms who have a way of knowing what could get people’s attention, even if it’s not necessarily what they really want or like. At the same time, because of the lockdown, there were more online exhibitions.

田：我觉得是线上的艺术变多了，或者说是大家的展示欲更强烈了。以前好像大家其实都有点深藏不露的感觉，有想法不会轻易发布在公共平台上面。但是后来我发现大家都想尽一切办法在宣传自己。然而，可能是在网上信息太多了，所以即使你发声的话也不一定会被人注意到。人的注意力是有限的，并且大部分的注意力都被有方法的媒体们给占据了，他们知道什么能博人眼球，虽然那并不一定是人们真正想要或喜欢的。同时，因为封锁，线上展览也变多了。

Jackie: That is right, you have been very specific about the profound shifts in the Art world. So, let us go back to your work. I have seen some short videos on your Weibo account, such as Before the Reboot and the Mythology series, which have some astronaut and planet elements in them. What are your thoughts on applying these elements in a post-human context?

高：对的，关于艺术界比较深刻的转变，您刚刚已经说的很具体了。那么我们还是回到作品，我在您的微博上看到了的一些短视频，比如说“重启之前”，然后“神话系列”等等，都会有一些宇航员还有星球的元素在，那么，您将这些元素运用在后人类语境中的思考是什么呢？

TIAN: These astronauts relate to the stability, fragility, and collapse that we just talked about. In The Thrill of Stability, for example, the astronaut actually symbolises a human exploration of himself, or an image of a human being cultivated by the spirit of science. He is constantly exploring new planets, and as he goes onto a planet, that planet would become a ball light in a ballroom, and then slowly collapse and blow itself up, and as he is walking towards the next one, the last one resume, which could give a feeling of a human being as like the locust, going from a planet to another for plundering.

田：这些宇航员其实就跟刚才聊的稳定，脆弱和崩塌都有关系。 比如说《稳定的惊险》，其实宇航员象征的就是人类对自己的一种探索，或者是一种科学精神培养出来的人类形象。他在不断的探索新的星球，走到一个星球上的时候，那个星球就变成了舞厅的球灯，然后它慢慢就会自我崩溃并炸掉，当人在走向下一个的时候，上一个又恢复了，这会给人一种人如蝗虫一般，一个个星球去掠夺的这种感觉。

That is also what Before the Reboot is about. They are having a carnival dance, but the man has started to take on a distorted and deadly character, and the background has changed from a starry sky to a blue screen, a sense of one last carnival before the end. That is how I interpret it, but audiences may see it differently.

《重启之前》也是这个意思。在狂欢跳舞，但是那个人已经开始有扭曲和死机的特征，背景也是由星空变成蓝屏，一种末日来临之前的狂欢之感。我个人是这样去解读的，但每个人的看法不一样。

Jackie: I think this is also a wonderful piece of work. And as an artist who mainly works in the field of new media art, what do you think is the relationship between Technology and Art?

高：我觉得这个也是很妙的一个作品。那么，作为一个主要以新媒体为领域尽行创作的艺术家，您认为科技和艺术发展之间的关系是怎样的呢？

TIAN: Technology and Art are closely linked. Historically speaking, technology and art are one and the same, but I think it is basically technology that drives art. Because art is only beneficial if people are well fed and clothed. Like the technological revolution, which invented so many technologies that are particularly useful for life, such as CT, and technology has in turn contributed to the development of art, rather than art contributing to the invention of technology. Because art does not have that much objective energy, it’s the economy that’s behind the technology, and the economy drives the technology, and then the technology drives the whole society from all aspects.

田：科技和艺术我认为是紧密连接在一起的。从历史上来说，科技与艺术是一体的，但我觉得基本上是科技在推动艺术的发展。 因为艺术其实是在人们丰衣足食的前提下才能体现出它的益处。 所以这就像科技革命，它发明了好多对生活来说特别有用的科技，比如CT。科技反向促进了艺术的发展，而不是说艺术促进了科技的发明。因为艺术并没有这么大的物质能量，科技的背后是经济，经济推动了科技，然后科技带动了整个社会各种层面的运转。

In fact, from the invention of pigments to the computer, the Internet, including VR and artificial intelligence, all these inventions have been promoting art and finding new possibilities for it. Some of them are material, some are directly conceptual. In fact, art and technology are one and the same, but technology comes first, and art comes second.

其实从颜料的发明，一直到现在的电脑、计算机、互联网，包括VR和人工智能等这些一系列发明，都是在推动艺术和在为其寻找新的可能性。有的是从材料上，有的是直接从观念上去转化。其实艺术与科技就是一体的，只不过科技在前，艺术在后。

Jackie: Well, yes, the economic base determines the superstructure. Then we come to the next question, the concept of the post-pandemic era was proposed in a way that overlaps with the context of the post-human era that you proposed earlier, can you talk about what would be potentially illuminating about the post-human era for what we call the post-pandemic era?

高：嗯，是的，经济基础决定上层建筑。 那么我们来到下一个问题，后疫情时代这个概念的提出，其实在某种程度上和您之前提出的后人类时代的语境是有所重叠的，您能谈谈关于后人类时代会对我们所说的后疫情时代有什么潜在的启发性吗？

TIAN: I think the post-pandemic would accelerate the post-human era because the pandemic is accelerating the rate at which people are incubating in the virtual world, people are becoming more dependent on the internet, and we are taking a step further towards a cyberpunk-like world. In general, man has become more and more adapted to machines, to the evolution of technology, and conversely man has become more and more updated to them. There is a heavy dependence on technology, especially in some big cities, people there has reached an unrealistic level of dependence on technology. It is as if people are handicapped once they have been removed from certain technologies. For example, if you do not have navigation app on your mobile phone, you may not even know where you are driving. The use of the Internet for express delivery, ordering food, having fun, etc. has also increased our dependence on it. So, I think people would probably be happier in the virtual world, and this process may last for a few hundred years. As the technology becomes more and more mature, people will spend more time in the virtual world than, for example, gaming time now feels like a lot, as well as brushing Jitterbug or some other social media software. Excitement and entertainment, this is the next direction. People’s time has slowly been taken over by some technology, so I think the pandemic is a kind of acceleration, I guess.

田：我觉得后疫情会加速后人类时代的到来，因为疫情其实是在加速人在虚拟世界的孵化速度，人对互联网的依赖更强烈了，我们也向类似于赛博朋克的世界更进了一步。总的来说，人对机器，科技的进化变得越来越适应了，反过来说人对它们的更新换代也越来越快了。人对技术有严重的依赖，尤其在一些大城市里，人对科技的依赖程度已经到达不太现实的程度了。好像人一旦脱离了一些技术，就像残疾人一样了。 比如，手机上如果不安装导航软件，可能开车都不知道向哪里行驶。还有互联网对一些快递，订餐，玩乐等这些生活中的技术运用，也加强了我们对它的依赖。所以我觉得人可能在虚拟世界会更快乐，这个过程其实可能会持续个几百年，随着技术发展越来越成熟，大家在虚拟世界里面的时间会比在现实中更多，比如说游戏时间现在感觉就会花上很多，还有刷抖音或者一些其他社交媒体软件，再下一步就是戴上VR眼镜，在另一个世界中沉浸，去寻找刺激和娱乐，这个肯定是下一个方向。 人的时间其实慢慢已经被一些科技给占领了，所以我觉得疫情是一种加速吧。

Jackie: According to what you have just said, technology might gradually take over our physical world and art world. Do you think this form of online art exhibition may gradually become mainstream in the future or even replace the physical art exhibitions completely?

高：那么根据您刚刚说的，科技可能渐渐的在占领我们的现实世界或者艺术世界，那么您认为线上的这种艺术展览形式，它是否在未来会有可能逐渐的主流化，或者甚至完全取代线下的艺术展览？

TIAN: It is impossible to replace the physical ones, because people have not lived completely online yet after all, and it’s only when they live completely online that offline is likely to be replaced. Exhibitions could become like games, where you could interact on your mobile phone, but right now we have not seen any exhibitions that are interactive enough to attract people, so there are still no big surprises comparing with physical exhibitions. A well-done online exhibition could complete the exhibition in the process of playing it, rather than still being a simple viewing experience.

田：取代肯定是不可能，因为人毕竟还没完全生活在线上，只有完全生活在线上，线下才有可能被取代。展览或许会变成游戏一样，在手机上就可以互动，但现在我们还没看到有能做到足够吸引人的这种展览互动，所以，与现场展览相对比，目前还是没有太大的惊喜。做得好的线上展览应该是在玩的过程中就把展览给完善了，而并非还是一个人的观看的感觉。

Jackie: It is saying that the development of online exhibitions is not very mature now, isn’t it?

高：等于说现在的线上展览的发展还不是很成熟，是吗？

TIAN: Yes, but I rarely see physical exhibitions now. It depends on who the audience is. For young people, they have a demand to go to physical exhibitions, for dating or socialising. They must be the main audience for physical exhibitions. However, the cost of physical exhibitions is relatively higher, mainly in terms of time. For example, if you are busy at work, the time cost of watching a film on your mobile phone is different from watching a film in the cinema. In the latter case you must spend several hours, or even half an hour preparing before leaving home. So now the exhibition must be attractive enough and famous enough or have a following to go and attract people. Otherwise, it is satisfied for people to go through exhibitions online.

田：对，但是线下展览我现在就很少看。这主要看受众是谁，对于年轻人来说，他们有需求去线下展览，比如说约会或者是社交。这部分人一定是线下展览的主要受众人群。但是线下展览的成本相对更高，主要是时间成本。 举个例子，如果你的工作很忙，那么在手机上看部电影，与在电影院看部电影的时间成本就是不一样的。后者你得花好几个小时，甚至出门前准备时间就得花半小时。所以现在展览必须足够吸引人，而且足够出名或者是有粉丝才有可能去吸引到人。除此之外一般，在线上看一看就满足了，人的注意力是会被转移的。

Jackie: Yes. There was some discussion about technology pushing art forward, could you talk about the impact this has on the future of the art industry? And how might this affect your future work?

高：是的。刚刚有讨论到科技推动艺术发展的一些话题，那么您可以谈一下这对艺术行业的发展前景会带来什么影响吗？并且这对您之后的创作会有一个怎样的辐射意义呢？

TIAN: In fact, the combination of technology and art in China is quite hot right now. Because to some extent, art has fallen into a big dilemma, so it needs technology to give it a new breakthrough. Firstly, there is a lot of potential for technology, because it appeals to young people and it is easy to create a buzz, and secondly, commerce likes it, for example, many shopping malls and advertisers would like to incorporate new technologies into art in their exhibitions. In China, the combination of technology and art has been very popular in recent years.

田：其实现在中国科技与艺术的结合还挺火的。因为某些程度上，艺术已经陷入了一个挺大的困境了，所以需要科技来给它一些新的突破口。首先科技它有市场，因为它比较吸引年轻人，并且也非常容易引起话题，其次商业也很喜欢，比如说很多商场，广告商。这些展览都喜欢把一些很新的科技融入艺术。 在中国，近几年科技与艺术的结合就很热门。

But I think artificial intelligence would be the thing most interesting in future. I think that artificial intelligence and mechanics could be combined with more virtual things. We could find a lot of potential directions in this area, and it will be interesting to see how each direction could be promoted. There is no direction that is better or more futuristic, so I think the state of technology now is that it is full of the possibility to be explored and rediscovered. Because there is no breakthrough in basic theory right now, it needs a process of accumulation, and there is a rhythm of quantitative change producing qualitative change. So, I think there is going to be a slow mix of technologies, there is going to be a lot of subdivision of new ways to play. I think it is going to be very great.

但我觉得未来更有意思的其实还是人工智能这方面。我觉得人工智能和机械，之后还可能跟虚拟的东西结合。从这方面我觉得其实能找到很多的出发点，每个点的拓展都会很有意思。它现在没有在特定哪个方向是被认为更好或者是更有未来的，我觉得现在科技的状态就是在各个点都有深挖和重新发现的可能。 因为其实现在基础的理论并没有较大的突破，这需要一个积累的过程，量变产生质变，这是有节奏的。所以我觉得各种技术会慢慢混合，但是这也会有很多细分的新玩法。我觉得这会是很热闹的。

Jackie: This reminds me of your previous work in which you mentioned that technology has a life of its own. Do you have an idea or thought about this?

高：这让我想起您之前在作品中提到过，科技是有自身的生命力存在的。您是有过这样一个想法或者是思考的吗？

TIAN: Technology itself is like a kind of life. Kevin Kelly wrote a trilogy that is actually talking about this. People are nurturing technology into life and trying in various fields to make artificial intelligence become like a life form, for example, it can control itself, make itself, and then he also wants it to be conscious at the end, in fact, they are all working on this. I think that after continuous experimentation, once the direction of evolution is determined, it will evolve successfully. It is just a matter of time because human beings have evolved over a long period of time. However, this is just a natural and slow evolution, but the time it took for man to cultivate technology was actually very short, and perhaps in another 1,000 years, this could break through even faster. It is giving a sense that human is cultivating a strong and powerful life from the point of view of the evolution of living things.

田：科技它本身就像一种生命。凯文·凯利写的三部曲，其实就在说这个事。人是在培育技术变成生命，人会在各种领域的尝试让人工智能变得像个生命体，比如它能控制自己，制造自己，然后他最后还想它有意识，其实都在这方面去努力。 但我觉得经过不断的实验，其实演化的方向一旦确定的话，他一定能演化成功的。我觉得只不过是时间长短的问题，因为人类的演变也经过了漫长的时间。这个只是自然的缓慢的演化，但是人培育科技的时间在很短的时间内就有了这种雏形了，或许再过1000年的时间，可能这个会突破的更快。 这是从生物的演化的角度来说，人在培育一个强而有力的生命的感觉。

Jackie: This is a brand-new point of view.

高：对的，这真的是一个全新的视角。

TIAN: All of these points are actually mentioned in Kevin Kelly’s book, which I do prefer, and some of them I’ve put it out in another way in my work.

田： 这些观点其实都是凯文·凯利的书中有提到过的，我是比较喜欢这种说法，有些说法会我在作品中用另一种方式将它表现出来。

Jackie: Exactly, I could feel your self-interpretation in your work. So that concludes our interview for today, thank you for sharing.

高：是的，能在您的作品中感受到您的自我解读。那么我们今天的采访就结束了，谢谢您的分享。

Staff

Host: Jiaqi GAO
Contact Person: Ifance FAN, Christy YANG
Planner: Christy YANG
Text: Ifance FAN, Christy YANG
Translator: Jiaqi GAO
Proofreading: Calum BAIRD

 

Apr 23, 2021

Velasco & Hu

Velasco & Hu already worked from home before the pandemic. Since the start, they have focused on projects relating to flower blooming, bringing them “Closer to Nature” than ever before. This experience changed their relation with nature and opened up their sight on flower art.

The couple also made a series of “Pills” which are short 1-minute videos, which they call “Visual Poems.” In 2020, they made 6 pills in total.

Closer to Nature – 30 days challenge / Beauty and the Dust

Pills

Two short films Velasco & Hu believe reflect their lives and thoughts during the quarantine and the post-quarantine:

QUARANTINE.  (visual poem #3)

This is a mini short film Velasco & Hu made during the lock-down. The intention was simply to do a visual diary but it has somehow turned into a visual proof of the common emotions they all shared back then.

LA NONNA INVISIBILE

Velasco & Hu made this short film at the end of 2020. It presents an invisible grandma by representing her culinary heritage through a visual feast consisting of beautiful still life pictures in motion. Through the story, they want to pay tribute to many grandmas who lost their lives, silently, during the pandemic, and keep them close in their memories.

Biography

Velasco & Hu is a creative couple formed by Carlos VELASCO from Madrid and Kate HU from Taipei. They teamed up to create transcendent, story-telling, artistic and cinematic photographs and films across Europe and Asia. They are commercial photographers by day and fine art photographers by night, specializing in still life photography.

Interview

The names would be abbreviated as “Isabel” (Isabel DIERINGER) and “Velasco & Hu” (Carlos VELASCO and Kate HU).

(之后姓名分别写为“Isabel”、“Velasco & Hu”)

Isabel: How did you organise your work and life during the pandemic?

Velasco & Hu: As our home is our workspace (apart from the shootings in rented studios), we organized our work and life in the same way as before, trying to get a balance in between.

Isabel：请问疫情期间你是怎么安排工作和生活的？

Velasco & Hu：封锁期间，我们变为在家进行创作（除租用的独立工作室以外），但是我们的工作和生活还是和往常一样，依旧希望在这两者之间尽量寻求平衡。

 

Isabel: What is different from before the pandemic?

Velasco & Hu: We used to work from home and we used to shoot still life photos at home, so it hasn’t been so different. But indeed, we stayed more time at home during the pandemic so we’ve tried to look for more projects to do at home.

Isabel：这与疫情爆发前有什么不同吗？

Velasco & Hu：我们之前就会在家工作，并且会拍摄一些日常，所以并没有什么不同。但其实，由于在家的时间更长了，所以我们已经疲于从居家生活中寻找素材。

 

Isabel: What is the biggest change you have been through or found? In other words, what is your Covid-pivot?

Velasco & Hu: We were very fortunate to be commissioned to work on a series of photographs and videos about a flower blooming during the pandemic. We spent lots of time studying the flowers before the shooting, by reading books, buying flowers to observe, testing flower arrangement and time-lapse at home. This experience changed our relation with nature and opened up our sight on flower art. We feel so much connected with nature and the changes of seasons, and all this has given us more inspiration throughout the pandemic.

Isabel：您经历过或发现的最大变化是什么？换句话说，您的“转折点”的是什么？

Velasco & Hu：我们很荣幸被允许在疫情期间拍摄有关鲜花盛开的一系列照片和录像。拍摄前，我们花了很多时间研究花，通过看书，买花等等，并会在家中测试拍摄角度和拍摄的延时设定。这次经历改变了我们与自然的关系，并打开了我们对于花卉艺术的视野。我们与自然和季节变化联系的日益紧密，所有这些都在疫情时期给我们带来了的非常多的灵感。

 

Isabel: What is your most proud creation since the pandemic started?

Velasco & Hu: We made a series of “Pills” which are very short, around 1-minute videos, which we call “Visual Poems”. In 2020 we made 6 pills in total.

Isabel：自大流行开始以来，您最喜爱的创作是哪个？

Velasco & Hu：我们制作了一系列简短的“药片”，大约1分钟左右的视频，我们称之为“视觉性的诗歌”。在2020一整年期间，我们总共制造了6粒“药片”。

 

Isabel: When did you start this project/artwork?

Velasco & Hu: It actually started before the pandemic back in the beginning of 2020, but we continued the project during the pandemic with lots of footage shot at home.

Isabel：您是什么时候开始创作这个项目/艺术品的？

Velasco & Hu：它实际上是在2020年初疫情爆发之前开始的创作的，但是我们在疫情期间继续进行了这个项目，并在家里拍摄了许多创作过程的影像。

 

Isabel: What inspired you to embark on this project/start creating this artwork?

Velasco & Hu: We wanted to visualize our emotions, feelings, and tangled sentiments.

Isabel：是什么驱使您着手进行此项目/开始创建此艺术品的？

Velasco & Hu：我们想具像化我们的心情，感觉以及复杂的情绪。

 

Isabel: What does this artwork mean to you?

Velasco & Hu: An inner picture of our emotions, an encounter of lost feelings, a visual diary of moments, a journey of artistic search.

Isabel：这件艺术品对您意味着什么？

Velasco & Hu：意味着我们内心的情感，一次与失落的相遇，一个记录瞬息之间的视觉日记，一次关于艺术探索的旅程。

 

Isabel: Has the pandemic had an impact on your work/work plan? (Was there any change in your thinking focus?

Velasco & Hu: Yes, unfortunately, we become more hesitant in planning projects that will involve many people, and we would have to think of a plan B to execute our projects in a smaller scale. That’s also why we made those “pills” as the footages could be made at home, on the street, during our trips without involving others.

Isabel：大流行对您的工作/工作计划有影响吗？您的思维重点是否有所改变？

Velasco & Hu：是的，不幸的是，我们在计划涉及多人的项目时变得更加地犹豫，我们不得不进行一些妥协，并以较小的规模去策划我们的项目。这也是我们制作这些“药丸”的原因，这使我们可以在家中，在街上或在不涉及其他人的旅途中去进行拍摄。

 

Isabel: If this applies, is there any funding for freelancers or artists in your city or in your country?

Velasco & Hu: There are subsidies and loans provided by the government in general.

Isabel：如果适用，您所在城市或您所在国家/地区的自由职业者或艺术家是否有任何援助基金？

Velasco & Hu：一般而言，政府会向我们提供补贴和贷款。

 

Isabel: Have your feelings about art now changed from your first encounters with it, or rather before the pandemic? If so, how?

Velasco & Hu: Our feelings about art are constantly changing, but with the pandemic, we now look for connections with nature and inner emotions more than ever.

Isabel：从您第一次接触艺术开始，或者在疫情爆发之前对艺术的感觉和现在相同吗？如果不尽相同，哪里被改变了呢？

Velasco & Hu：我们对艺术的感觉在不断变化，但是由于疫情的爆发，我们现在比以往任何时候都更希望去寻求自然与内在情感之间的联系。

 

Isabel: Do you think the arts will mostly remain/move online after the pandemic?

Velasco & Hu: Not at all, we think most of the arts still need to be appreciated “in person”.

Isabel：您认为艺术在疫情之后还会持续在线上发展吗？

Velasco & Hu：并不，我们认为大多数艺术仍需要我们“亲自”去欣赏。

 

Isabel: How do you see the relationship between technology and art?

Velasco & Hu: Positive, as technology serves as a good tool to create art and a good platform to exhibit art.

Isabel：您如何看待科技与艺术之间的关系？

Velasco & Hu：科技会为艺术带来积极的影响，因为科技既是表达艺术的辅助工具，艺术的展示平台。

 

Staff

Host: Isabel DIERINGER
Contact Person: Isabel DIERINGER
Planner: Isabel DIERINGER
Text: Isabel DIERINGER
Translator: Jiaqi GAO
Proofreading: Calum BAIRD

 

Apr 23, 2021

Tsitra PARK & Shawn NAYAR

Shawn: “without the whirlwind of energy around me, I had to look inwards to find a way to drive me forward, and to translate that into an artwork that was accessible in this day and age. So transform all my work into digital work.”

Tsitra: “the biggest change to adapt to was making work internally, there was a lot of insular thinking, as opposed to being a part of something bigger. We are probably creating the most interesting dialogue in the every day, there are constant pivots and we are constantly aware of them.”

With a combined interest in communication and digital aesthetics, Tsitra Park and Shawn Nayar’s curatorial venture [INSERT ART HERE] develops emerging ideas and methods of making art to create an intimate and engaging experience in a time of isolation.

[INSERT ART HERE]

 

Curated by Shawn Nayar and Tsitra Park

Featuring: Claire Bath, Amelia Clark, Emmanuelle Garcia, Fiona Gordon, Ellie Home, Tabi Hull, Jesse Klassen, Roibí O’Rua, Katherine Stanley, Saffy Stott, and Rowan Walker.

[INSERT ART HERE] is an online exhibition hosted on Zoom. Between the 12th and the 14th of March, the event featured 13 artists across Europe and North America, each combining a green morph suit with Zoom green-screen technology to embody their work in new ways.

[INSERT ART HERE] website with more information that you can access here:

https://insertarthere.cargo.site/

Biography

Shawn Nayar is a practising artist and curator from India who is currently based in Newcastle upon Tyne. His practice traverses digital platforms and media to explore queer and erotic club culture. Amalgamating personal experiences from the club scene with a deeper exploration into the role of POC within the gay community, Shawn creates work to depict and engage a community isolated due to lockdown.

Tsitra Park negotiates dialogues of privacy and identity in the realm of social media, with work that interrogates the role of the individual and art-making in the digital context. Based in Edinburgh, they use their curatorial and art practice as a means by which to engage and unpack new contexts as art and artists adapt to an evolving world.

Shawn Nayar 是一位来自印度的实验艺术家、策展人，目前居住于泰恩河(Tyne)畔的纽卡斯尔(Newcastle)。其艺术创作致力于，跨越不同的数字媒体平台，对“酷儿”(Queer)与 “色情俱乐部” (erotic club）等文化领域进行探索。

Tsitra Park，一位来自爱丁堡的艺术家，其艺术创作目前致力于在社交媒体上进行有关个人隐私和身份的对话，并试图去探讨在数字化语境中的个体和艺术创作。他们以爱丁堡为基地，利用他们的策展和艺术实践作为一种手段，在艺术和艺术家适应一个不断发展的世界时，参与并开拓了新的领域。

Interview

Interviewer: Hello everyone, and welcome to R-Lab and our interviews. My name is Velia Cavallini and I’m here with Tsitra Park and Shawn Nayar, and I’ll let them introduce themselves.

Interviewer: 大家好，欢迎大家来到R-Lab的采访环节，我的名字是Velia Cavallini，我将采访的是 Tsitra Park 和 Shawn Nayar，接下来让他们为大家做一下自我介绍。

Tsitra: Hi, I’m Tsitra Park, I’m currently based in Edinburgh, I am an artist and curator and I work with ideas of dialogue between social media and the public sphere at the moment. Together with Shawn Nayar we created [INSERT ART HERE].

Tsitra: 大家好，我是Tsitra Park, 目前居住于爱丁堡，我是一名艺术家和策展人，目前我致力于社交媒体 和公共领域之间的对话。我与Shawn Nayar一起创作了[INSERT ART HERE] 。

Shawn: My name is Shawn Nayar. I am an artist from India who is currently based in Newcastle upon Tyne in England and my practice is really interested in queer culture, particularly in queer club culture. And I look and research and explore the place that people of colour have within the gay community and within this really vibrant culture. And yes, together with Tsitra we’ve worked really hard to create [INSERT ART HERE]

Shawn: 我的名字是Shawn Nayar. 我是一位来自印度的艺术家，目前在英国泰恩河畔的纽卡斯尔工作，我对酷儿文化非常感兴趣，特别是酷儿俱乐部文化。我致力于观察、研究和探索有色人种在同性恋社区和这个充满活力的文化中的地位。并且，如你所⻅，我和Tsitra一起创造了 [INSERT ART HERE]

I: For the first few minutes we’re going to focus on your lives as and then we’re going to go into discussing your artwork. So, how did you organize your life and your work during this pandemic?

I: 在采访初始阶段，我们将采访重点聚焦于你们的生活，然后我们将讨论你的作品。那么，在这次疫情期间，你是如何安排你的生活和工作的呢?

S: I guess during this pandemic it was a lot about trying to find the artwork that drove me. Before I was surrounded in this really lovely chaos of the art world, there was um inspiration everywhere from art galleries to people around you and suddenly just being isolated and alone without all of this whirlwind of energy to keep driving you forward you have to have to look inwards to find a way to drive me forward. So it was a lot about studying myself and finding a way to translate that into artwork that was accessible in this isolated age so transforming my work into digital work.

S: 我想在疫情期间，我很想找到能够驱使我前进的艺术品。在我被包围在这个非常可爱却又混乱的艺术世界之前，到处都有灵感，从美术馆到你周围的人。突然之间，我的周围只剩下孤立和孤独，这些孤立和孤独就像是无法抵挡的旋⻛，促使我必须向内心看去，才能找到一种方法来驱动我前进。所以，我要做的就是研究我自己，并找到一种方法，将其转化为在这个与世隔绝的时代可以让他人获得的艺术品，因此我将我的作品转化为了数字作品。

T: I found that it took a little time to get used to work in the pandemic and I think my immediate response was to develop a sort of routine and just to do something, to create work and not necessarily think about what I was making, or what I was trying to make, and just doing. And that developed then into ideas.

T: 我花了不少时间来适应这次的疫情，我认为，疫情发生时，我的第一反应是制定一种常规，那便是，去是做一些事情，创造一些作品。不一定要深切思考我在做什么，或我试图做什么，仅仅只是去做、去实践。于是就发展成了更多的想法。

I: And what do you think is the biggest change that you had to go through, or the biggest change that you have found yourself stumbling into?

I: 你们认为你们必须经历的最大的改变是什么，或者你们发现自己在疫情期间最大的改变是什么?

T: I’d say that the biggest change has been the lack of everyday communication that you never really planned with people, the kind of the interactions when you’d just be in the studio and someone would walk past, or just on your daily commute where you’d see someone doing something weird that will kind of stem your brain into thinking different things. And the change has been that you’re making work, like Shawn said, internally a lot, so there’s a lot of insular thinking as opposed to being part of something bigger.

T: 我想说最大的变化是，你从未真正计划过的并且一直缺失的与人的日常交流，例如，当你在演播室里 有人走过时的那种寒暄与互动，或者只是在你每天上下班的路上，你会看到有人做一些奇怪的事情，这 会吸引你的注意并且让你的大脑因为这些事开始思考不同的事情。另外，改变是你在做的工作，就像肖 恩说的，在内心中做了很多工作。所以有很多孤立的想法，而不是成为更大事情的一部分。

S: I think the biggest change for me is that I’ve been actively seeking out communication and talking to other artists. Because initially I was taking, like as Tsitra said, those walks through the studios and seeing something which sparks your brain, just random conversations in the hallway. I completely took those for granted, so now when I was completely deprived of all of those I’ve been actively trying to recapture that. So it’s been calling artists to have meetings, randomly outreach, messaging and such. Essentially, it’s me bombarding all the artists I know being like ‘hi how are you’ and trying to force them into having dialogues just to keep conversations going, to get those cogs really going. Even if it’s not even at an art level, even just a social level, just to get some sort of communication going.

S: 我认为对我来说最大的改变是，我一直在积极寻求与其他艺术家的交流和沟通。因为一开始我就像 Tsitra说的那样，在工作室里走来走去，看到一些能激发你大脑的东⻄，只是在走廊里随意交谈。我认为沟通与交流是理所当然的，所以当我被完全剥夺了这些时，我一直在积极尝试重新夺回。所以我一直在给艺术家们打电话，让他们开会，随机宣传，传递信息等等。从本质上说，是我炮轰所有我认识的艺术家，像“嗨，你好吗”，并试图迫使他们进行对话，只是为了让我们的对话继续下去，让那些⻮轮继续转动。即使不是在艺术层面，只是社会层面，也要进行某种交流。

T: I think really grabbing onto the digital sphere as well, and like bouncing off what Shawn said is quite important in that, how do we still re-establish that connection that we’ve kind of lost. So I think uh both of us have been seeing how we can use this new world to our advantage.

T: 我认为要重视和抓住数字领域，就像从Shawn的话中体现出来的一样，我们如何重新建立我们已经失去的联系是非常重要的。所以我想我们俩都看到了如何利用这个新世界为我们带来好处。

S: Yeah.

S: 是的.

T: I mean, I think that the world is constantly changing anyway isn’t it? And I think actually what’s funny about this is that there was one big change, and now it feels like the world isn’t really changing. So you’re much more aware of your own pivots, because we’re probably creating the most interesting dialogue in the everyday. So I definitely think that there are constant pivots, and we’re constantly aware of them, because we’re now our own stimulus and our own world, in a sense.

T: 我认为世界本就是在不断变化，不是吗?我觉得有趣的是，疫情曾经给我们带来很大的改变，但现在却感觉世界并没有真正改变。所以你更清楚你自己的“转变”，因为我们可能在创造每天最有趣的对话。所以我肯定地认为，只有不断的“转变”，我们不断地意识到这些“转变”，在某种意义上，我们现在是自己在刺激我们自己的世界。

S: I have definitely noticed that my pivots change depending on my emotions, and how I’m feeling. Because I’m always trying to have this outrageous outgoing-ness, but then whenever I’m feeling down or I just got a lot of work that I need to do, I have this recluse and my pivot becomes internal. I’m like ‘okay, I’ve got this work that I need to do, that I need to develop’. So, it sort of comes in, and then I want to reach out again, get some more inspiration. It’s definitely oscillating, depending on how I’m feeling between the internal and the external. And that’s definitely a really important, pivotal change during this pandemic.

S: 我确实注意到，我的“转变”会随着我的情绪和感觉而变化。因为我总是想让自己变得很外向，但每当 我情绪低落或者有很多工作要做的时候，我就会有一个隐居的地方，我的“转变”就会变成内在的。我会说‘好吧，我有工作要做，要发展’。所以，它到来了，然后我想再次伸出援手，得到更多的灵感。它肯定是振聋发聩的，这取决于我对内在和外在的感觉。在这次疫情期间，这无疑是一个非常重要的关键性变化。

I: So, as artists, what is your most proud creation since the beginning of the pandemic?

I: 那么，作为艺术家，疫情爆发以来，你最自豪和骄傲的创作是什么?

S: Honestly, [INSERT ART HERE], and for me personally another project that I’m doing, Freaky Deeks. For both of them it’s less about the work – the work is still amazing and I love what I’ve got out there – but what has really drawn me into it has been the audience, and the artist networks that we’ve created, so the places where artists can talk together, create work together, collaborate, talk. And even audiences, using platforms to see our work but to also talk amongst each other. So, I think that’s what I’m most proud of, creating the networks between audiences and artists, for sure.

S: 老实讲，[INSERT ART HERE], 我同时也在做另一个项目叫Freaky Deeks。对我们来说，令人惊叹并不是作品最重要的，我喜欢的是，我在项目中获得的意义，其中真正吸引我的是观众，以及我们创建的艺术家网络。艺术家可以在这里一起交谈，一起创作，合作，交谈。即使是观众，也可以通过平台观看我们的作品，也可以相互交流。所以，我想这是我最自豪的，即创造观众和艺术家之间的网络。

T: I think that would stand for both of us. [INSERT ART HERE] has been a big part of both of our works this year, it has kind of transformed the way that our own individual practices work, but also the way that we interact with others. And I feel like the idea has caused others to kind of have a bounce point as well and to reconsider their own practice. And we’ve had a lot of feedback from that which has felt really great. So, I’d say that’s what we’re both most proud of, hence why we wanted to put forwards for R-Lab.

T: 我想这对我们俩都有好处。今年的 [INSERT ART HERE] 是我们两个作品的重要组成部分，它在某种程度上改变了我们个人实践的方式，也改变了我们与他人互动的方式。我觉得这个想法让其他人也有了一个“转变”，并能重新考虑自己的做法。我们收到了很多反馈，感觉非常棒。所以，我想说，这是我们最引以为豪的，所以我们想将其展示在R-Lab线上展览中。

I: Thank you for that! So, you talked about [INSERT ART HERE]. When did you start working on it? And if you could just describe the project to me.

I: 谢谢你们!那么，你们谈到了 [INSERT ART HERE]。你们是什么时候开始创做这个项目的?你们能否向我描述一下这个项目？

T: We started it and it was kind of an idea that originated back November (2020). We were just thinking, what can we do with this new space? I was so frustrated about this constant thing ‘well it’s not real exhibition space though’ and ‘oh you know when we get back to the whatever’. And it was just like, we knew we’d be in it for a while so, what can we do to create that sort of atmosphere that feels like it’s a one-time only thing, that used to be there but whatever. And also, I was playing with this idea of the artist compared to the artwork and that relationship. So Shawn and I had a walk and we were brainstorming this idea, about what if we used like the green morph-suits and the Zoom technology – because we’ve been using Zoom so much – to kind of get the artist to embody their own work, so they become their own exhibition space. Because it felt like the artists will see their work anyway but it was interesting to play with that relationship, and then bring it to an audience on Zoom, which almost feels like an intimate platform as well, that doesn’t replace or stand in for the physical exhibition space but it’s something of its own accord.

T: 我们这个想法源于2020年11月。当时我们在想，我们能在这个新时代做什么?我对这不断发生的事 情感到非常沮丧，比如“虽然这不是真正的展览空间”和“哦，你知道我们什么时候回来”。就像，我们知道我们会在里面呆上一段时间，那么，我们能做些什么来创造那种感觉就像是一次性的东⻄，曾经在那 里，但不管以后怎样。而且，我把艺术家的这个想法和艺术作品以及两者之间的关系相比较。所以Shawn和我散了散步，我们在集思广益地讨论这个想法，如果我们使用绿色变形套装和变焦技术—— 因为我们一直在使用变焦技术——让艺术家体现他们自己的作品，让他们成为他们自己的展览空间。因 为感觉艺术家们无论如何都会看到他们的作品，这种关系很有趣，把它带到Zoom上的观众面前，这几乎感觉像是一个亲密的平台，它不会取代或代替实体展览空间，它本身就是一种和谐。

S: Yeah, and I think as soon as Tsitra brought up these ideas, especially using Zoom in an unconventional way to bring audience and artists together, my mind instantly just went forward and I was like ‘okay, this is such a great idea, it’s so visually striking’. So, what really got me invested in the project were these really strong visuals and I was like ‘I know how to take this forward, and how to reach our audiences’. So in my mind I was instantly thinking about crazy posters, with these green morph-suits, paired with high art, or just our features in the green. So, what really sold me on the project was really the visual medium that we would use to bring our audience together. That was instantly what got me interested, and I guess it was like a snowball going down the hill. Tsitra just had this idea of using Zoom and I was like ‘let’s do this on social media!’. And these crazy ideas were just building and building and building until finally just became this big fascinating project that we just had to do something with!

S: 是的，我认为，当Tsitra提出这些想法时，特别是使用Zoom这一种非传统的方式将观众和艺术家聚集在一起，我的思维立刻被向前推进，我想“好吧，这是一个很棒的想法，它在视觉上如此引人注目”。

因此，真正让我投入到这个项目中的是这些非常强烈的视觉效果，就像‘我知道如何推进这一点，以及如何接触我们的观众’。所以在我的脑海里，我立刻想到了疯狂的海报，这些绿色变形服，搭配高雅艺术，或者只是我们以绿色为特征。所以，在这个项目上真正吸引我的是我们用来把观众聚集在一起的视 觉媒介。这一点立刻引起了我的兴趣，我想这就像一个滚下山的雪球。Tsitra刚想到使用Zoom，我就想 ‘让我们在社交媒体上做这个吧!’. 这些疯狂的想法一直在我们的脑海中构建，最终变成了一个我们不得不做点什么的大项目!

I: And you worked with quite a few artists, right?

I: 你们和很多艺术家合作过，对吧?

T: Yeah! We worked with 13 artists between Europe and North America, it was was great experience being able to meet new people in that way, and share ideas.

T: 是啊!我们与13位来自欧洲和北美的艺术家合作，能够以这种方式结识新朋友，分享想法，是一种很好体验。

I: Did you all know each other before or did you just collect new artists along the way?

I: 你们以前都认识吗，还是在创作过程中一直不断地在寻找和聚集新的艺术家?

S: It was a lovely mix of both. We had an open call which we distributed amongst our university, but also on Instagram and Facebook. So, we had people that we knew applying and we also had people who we had no idea about applying from Brussels and from North America, and we were so fascinated by this response. It was a really interesting mix of people that we knew but also people we had no idea about. And no matter what level we knew them at, being able to relate to this idea of wanting to create art really helped to create this awesome starting point to build a really interesting dialogue with them.

S: 两者都有。我们有一个公开的电话，分布在我们的大学，但也在Instagram和Facebook上发布。所以，我们有认识的人申请，也有不认识的人申请，我们对这种反应非常着迷。这是一个非常有趣的混合，有的人我们认识，但也有人我们不认识。无论我们了解他们的水平如何，能够与这种想要创造艺术的想法联系起来，确实有助于创造这个令人敬畏的起点，并且可以与他们建立一个非常有趣的对话。

I: And how did you coordinate with them? Did you have set instructions or was it just ‘okay, it’s going to be green screen technology’ and then you left artistic freedom to all of them?

I: 你是怎么和他们协调的?你是设定了明确的指令?还是只是“好吧，这将采用绿屏技术”，然后你就把艺术自由留给了所有人?

T: We gave them a lot of freedom; they developed the idea with us really. We kind of started the project wanting it to be a collaboration, we had this idea to embody your own artwork, but immediately you put it out to people and you get ideas that you didn’t have before. People wanted to use green paint, green clothes, and we thought as long as it’s your body so that you’re still embodying it and not taking it away from that, then beyond that people really went a bit wild. And that’s why you’ve got such a range of artworks in it, which is really great. It was so exciting to see where people would take it.

T: 我们给了他们很大的自由;他们和我们一起发展和完善了这个想法。我们有点想把它作为一个合作项目，我们用这个想法来体现自己的艺术作品，你⻢上把它展现给人们，并得到以前没有的想法。人们想用绿色的颜料，绿色的衣服，我们认为只要是你的身体都可以，所以你需要去体现它，而不是把它从那 拿走，然后超越，人们真的有点疯狂。这就是为什么有这么多的艺术品在里面，真的很棒。看到人们把它带到各处真是太令人兴奋了。

S: Yeah, because I think as soon as we started getting applications in from the open call, and people with their really interesting ideas beyond just the morph-suits, like as Tsitra said green paints green clothes and different ways of embodying their artwork through performance, through digital paintings, I think we just didn’t realize that this could be so much more. So, we did everything we could to really help the artists to reach their own vision, we did a whole bunch of research as to how we can use Zoom, we looked into webinars, we looked into green screen, the best way to people for up to upload their work, to record their work. Essentially we aimed to provide as much support to our artists as we could, showing them all the options available and discussing their work with them and being and then find out ‘this will work best with your work’, and then watching them take it forward. So it was just a really interesting back and forth to seeing the artist’s ideas and then talking about the platform and how to take it forward, to seeing the work really grow.

S: 是的，我认为，当我们开始从开放电话中获得人们的作品申请时，大家的想法都很有趣。就像Tsitra 所说，不仅仅是变形服，用绿色颜料绿色衣服和通过表演，通过数字绘画来体现他们的艺术作 品，这些不同的呈现方式，我想我们只是没有意识到还有更多可能性。所以，我们尽我们所能帮助艺术 家们达到他们自己想要的视觉呈现，我们做了一系列的研究，关于如何使用Zoom，我们看了网络研讨会，我们看了绿屏，这是让人们上传他们的作品和记录他们的作品的最好方式。从本质上说，我们的目 标是为我们的艺术家提供尽可能多的支持，向他们展示所有可用的选项，并与他们讨论工作，然后发现 “这将使你的工作变得最有效”，然后看着他们向前推进。因此，这是一个非常有趣的过程，看到艺术家们的想法，然后讨论平台和如何向前推进，从而看到作品真正成⻓。

I: That’s fantastic. So, of course this as an artwork, as a project is strictly connected to the pandemic because we have the technology we’ve been using, and it’s all online. Do you think that something similar could have come up in a non-pandemic situation? In an alternative timeline, basically. Or do you think that – of course it would have been different but – would you have had the original thought if not for this global situation?

I: 太棒了。所以，作为一件艺术品，作为一个项目，这是与疫情密切相关的，因为我们有我们一直在使用的技术，而且都是线上。你认为在非疫情的情况下会出现类似的情况吗?一定是有不同的，你认为在非疫情的情况下你会保持最初的想法吗

T: I think it could have emerged, but I don’t know if it would have. There’s a great connection of this kind of green suit to digital, and I just know personally, I knew Shawn was using kind of digital platform so it’s definitely something that I was perhaps progressing into, but the pandemic shot me into thinking this is actually maybe the most useful thing to be doing rather than faffing about with other mediums. So I don’t know, I think it may have emerged but perhaps a little bit later.

T: 我想它可能会出现的，但我不敢肯定它是否会出现。我个人也知道，这种绿色穿着和数字化有很大的联系，我知道肖恩正在使用一种数字平台，这肯定是我正在发展的东⻄，但这次疫情让我想到，这实际上可能是最有用的做法，而不是与其他媒介混合。我不知道，我想它可能已经出现了，但可能会稍晚一点。

S: I think definitely, at least from my personal perspective about creating artworks. At least for me it was a lot about creating our artworks for a space. So knowing that we’ve got this physical space, how do we fill this, how do I put my digital arts into the space? For [INSERT ART HERE] if not for the pandemic we definitely would have considered a physical space like ‘okay so we’ve got this green screen technology, how do we translate this to a gallery space? Do we show our screen on the wall?’ So it definitely would have been this digital idea, but rooted in the physical. And [with] the pandemic we decided to just do away with all of that, because especially for this idea it was a lot about the digital. So we did away with one extra step and allowed us to focus on what we really want to get across.

S: 我想是肯定的，至少从我个人的⻆度来看是这样的。对我来说，这是关于我们艺术创造的空间。所以知道我们有这个物理空间，我们如何填补这个空间，我如何把我的数字艺术放入这个空间?对于[INSERT ART HERE] ，如果不是疫情，我们肯定会考虑一个物理空间，比如我们有这个绿色屏幕技术，我们怎么把它转换成画廊空间?我们会在墙上展示我们的屏幕吗?所以这肯定是一个数字化的想法，但它植根于物理。在疫情之后，我们决定放弃这些，因为对于这个想法来说，它更多的是关于数字 的。所以我们多走了一步，并专注于我们真正想要的东⻄。

I: Have your feelings about art changed since your first encounter with it? And has it changed with the pandemic?

I: 疫情期间，你对艺术的感觉有没有改变?它随疫情而改变了吗?

S: I’ve definitely been exploring new mediums, even though before the pandemic I was exploring digital art it was more about all right how do I transform this, how do I put this into a gallery space. But now because of the pandemic we’ve had to use new platforms rather than the gallery space to show our work. From there my work has been a lot about using platforms, and then transforming platforms as well, so using a platform as a medium, manipulating it to become an artwork.

I think definitely the pandemic has really encouraged me to look at new mediums, especially digital mediums, and look for ones which aren’t necessarily our mediums. So, even looking at platforms and things which you won’t really consider something you can manipulate in an artistic way, I really push myself to m create something new in this new digital world.

S: 我肯定一直在探索新的媒介，即使在疫情之前，我也一直在探索数字艺术，更多的是关于如何改造 数字艺术，如何把数字艺术放到画廊空间。但现在由于疫情，我们不得不使用新的平台而不是画廊空间 来展示我们的作品。从那以后，我的工作一直是关于使用平台，然后转换平台，所以使用平台作为媒介，操纵它成为一件艺术品。这场疫情确实鼓励我去寻找新的媒介，尤其是数字媒介，寻找那些不一定是我们的媒介。所以，即使是 在平台和东⻄，你不会真的认为你可以用一种艺术的方式操纵，我真的推动自己创造一些新的东⻄在这个新的数字世界。

T: I think for me personally I found that I’ve been really questioning the role of art, rather as in the public sphere but bringing that then into the private, and where does it stand there, and what’s its use and purpose, and how do we interact with it when you know it’s from your own home and in your own personal environment. And also the role of the artist and curator, and the interaction of public and private sphere, and all the different roles of art as a way of expressing emotions. But also as an audience member, how do you receive it on a personal level. And so it’s just been questioning that and how we can play with context in relation to that.

T: 我个人认为我发现我一直在质疑艺术的作用，艺术更像是在公共领域，但把它带到了私人领域，它站在那里，它的用途和目的是什么，当你知道它来自你自己的家，在你自己的个人环境中，我们如何与它互动。艺术家和策展人的⻆色，公共领域和私人领域的互动，以及艺术作为表达情感方式的各种不同 ⻆色。但是作为一个听众，你是如何从个人的⻆度来接受它的。所以我们一直在质疑这个问题，以及我们如何处理与之相关的语境。

I: Yeah because I suppose that the pandemic has accelerated everything, because for years now we’ve been moving towards the digital world, but it has accelerated everything. And now of course we are kind of forced to have everything online, in this very weird space that doesn’t really exist.

I: 是的，我认为疫情加速了一切，因为多年来我们一直在向数字世界迈进，但它加速了这一切。当 然，我们现在不得不把所有东⻄都放到网上，在这个非常奇怪的空间里，其实并不存在。

S: Because technology advances so quickly, so these objects like VHS and CDs, it becomes this peak and then just recedes and disappears, and now it’s become completely digital in this world that it doesn’t really exist it’s not physical. I guess the pandemic really helped to acknowledge these new objects and these new mediums and materials which don’t exist in the physical realm, but because of the pandemic we had to use them and sort of encourage the new way of thinking and approaching art and objects.

S: 因为技术进步如此之快，所以像VHS和CD这样的物体，它变成了一个峰值，然后就消失了，现在它在这个世界上变成了完全数字化的，它不存在，它不是物理的。我想疫情真的帮助我们认识了这些新的物体，这些新的媒介和材料，它们在物质世界中是不存在的，但是由于疫情，我们不得不使用它们， 并且某种程度上鼓励了新的思维方式和接近艺术和物体的方式。

T: It’s all about what you notice and what your way of thinking is, because compared to, rather than a physical object, it’s interesting because it’s becoming more about ideas and art as a way of sharing ideas, and art as a way to propel technology as well.

T: 这都是关于你注意到了什么，你的思维方式是什么，因为与物理物体相比，它更有趣，因为它越来越注重思想和艺术，作为分享思想的一种方式，艺术也是推动科技发展的一种方式。

I: Where do you think [INSERT ART HERE] stands in this? Because of course you have the artists basically disappearing into their own work.

I: 很多观点认为艺术家们基本上消失在他们自己的作品中，你认为[INSERT ART HERE] 在这方面有何意义?

T: Yes and no. I would say it’s a relationship between the art and the artwork. The artist is very much present in the piece because it’s through their shape, through their form that you experience the artwork. So I think in a way the audience sees the artist more than they would have otherwise. And I think Zoom as a platform, as I mentioned I think it’s quite intimate, because I never really facetimed people before the pandemic if I wasn’t particularly close with them, and I still think that people do think it’s a bit odd to be face to face with someone on a call. There’s something about it that feels kind of close, and we’re all getting used to it now but I think there’s still a bit of that in [INSERT ART HERE] and we tried to show that with the private slots. We had private sessions where the artists would have a much smaller audience, and you feel like you’re able to converse with them a bit more, or you experience that human to human rather than being in a white empty room with just a piece of artwork and a silent artist.

T: 是也不是。我认为这是艺术和艺术品之间的关系。艺术家在这件作品中是非常真实的，因为通过他们的形状，通过他们的形式，你可以体验到这件艺术品。因此，我认为在某种程度上，观众比其他人更能看到艺术家。我认为Zoom作为一个平台，正如我提到的，我认为它非常亲密，因为我从来没有在疫情之前真正与人们对视，如果我不是特别接近他们，我依旧觉得人们认为在电话中与某人面对面有点奇怪。但是我们现在都已经习惯了，但我认为在 [INSERT ART HERE] 中还是有一点类似的地方，我们试着用私人会议沟通来展示这一点。我们有私人会议，在那里，艺术家的观众会少得多，你会觉得你能和他们多交谈一点，或者你体验到人与人之间的交流，而不是在一个只有一件艺术品和一个沉默的艺术家的白色空房间里。

S: And I guess another way of putting it would be that initially you’d have the artist and the artwork, and usually they would exist as two different entities. You have the artwork that exists in the gallery space which is up for purchase, and you see the artwork a different way, and the artist you’d approach a different way they explore their work through this and they talk about it. So they exist as two quite different entities, I guess with [INSERT ART HERE] we really wanted to focus on the creation and the unity of both of them. Through [INSERT ART HERE] using Zoom we are able to embrace the relationship between the artists and the artwork, so how they see their work, how they react to their work. And it just became this fluid amalgamation of the two. And which the digital world allowed us to represent and showcase.

S: 我想另一种说法是，一开始你会有艺术家和艺术品，通常它们会作为两个不同的实体存在。你有一件艺术品存在于画廊里，你可以购买，你可以用不同的方式看到艺术品，你接触的艺术家也可以用不同的方式探索和谈论他们的作品。所以它们是作为两个完全不同的实体存在的，我想通过[INSERT ART HERE]把重点放在两者的创造和统一上。通过[INSERT ART HERE]使用Zoom，我们能够理解艺术家和艺术品之间的关系，从而了解他们如何看待自己的作品，如何对自己的作品做出反应。这就变成了两者的流动融合。数字世界让我们得以表现和展示。

T: It’s conversive. it’s a kind of dialogue. There’s art and technology, and art and artist, and audience and artists and it’s like bringing those conversations and encouraging them.

T: 是相互转换的。这是一种对话。有艺术和技术，有艺术和艺术家，有观众和艺术家，这些对话可以鼓励他们。

I: And do you think that this moving of the arts online will stand after the pandemic? Or do you think that the art world will abandon the online world after this pandemic? How do you see the next pivot for the arts?

I: 你们认为这种在线艺术的发展会在疫情之后持续下去吗?或者你认为艺术界在这场疫情之后会放弃网络世界吗?你如何看待艺术的下一个“转折点”?

S: I see it as definitely advancing as a separate avenue. Obviously, people are so used to this new normal, but they sort of idealised the past as well because it was when people could meet and talk in person. And it’s the same for art. People like being able to go to a gallery and seeing their favourite painting up in front of them. So people do want to go back, so I definitely see the physical art world still being a big important part, but the pandemic has definitely highlighted that there is a digital route on which you can develop your artworks, that you’re not just tied to a physical space to show your work. You can take it to online platforms, you can show it to a different audience that’s not just based in your city, you can show your art to the world, potentially, through online platforms. And even now with the current craze of NFTs and new digital currencies to promote digital artworks, there definitely is a separate avenue of digital arts which will be progressing after this pandemic ends. At least I personally hope that it will be propelled forward, it won’t just sort of plateau, it’ll just keep going and being spurred on.

S: 我认为这绝对是一条独立的发展道路。很明显，人们已经习惯了这种新的常态，但他们也把过去理想化了，因为那时人们可以⻅面和交谈。艺术也是如此。人们喜欢去画廊看到他们最喜欢的画。所以人们的确想回到过去，我看到，物理艺术世界仍然是一个重要的组成部分，但这场疫情明确地强调，有一 条数字化的道路，你不仅仅局限于一个物理空间来展示你的作品，你可以开发新的数字化道路。你可以把它带到网上平台，你可以把它展示给不同城市的观众，你可以通过网络平台向世界展示你的艺术。即使是现在，随着当前NFT和新的数字货币的狂热，肯定有一个单独的途径以促进数字艺术作品，数字艺术将在这场疫情病结束后取得进展。至少我个人希望它能向前推进，它不仅仅是一个平台，它会继续前进。

T: I hope they develop as different branches, that the physical space isn’t completely forgotten and that the digital space keeps progressing as well. I think that different people have different needs for each one, and different spaces work differently for people, and say different things. And I think it’s just an interesting expansion of dialogue, and it’s an interesting realm to explore, but not to take away from the physical space either. I don’t think we should completely live all online.

T: 我希望他们能够发展成不同的分支，物理空间不会被完全遗忘，数字空间也会不断进步。我认为不同的人有不同的需求，不同的空间对人的作用不同，说的话也不同。我认为这是一个有趣的对话扩展，是一个值得探索的领域，但也不能完全从物理空间中拿走。我不认为我们应该完全生活在网上。

I: Thank you Shawn and Tsitra, and thank you for joining us here at R-Lab. It was lovely to talk to you and thank you for showing us your work.

I: Shawn和Tsitra,谢谢你们参与R-Lab的访谈，非常高兴能和你们交流并且谢谢你们愿意向R-Lab平台 的观众展示你们的作品

T: Thank you so much!

T: 谢谢！

S: Yes, thank you so much for having us.

S: 谢谢你们的邀请！

Staff

Host: Velia CAVALLINI
Contact Person: Velia CAVALLINI
Planner: Velia CAVALLINI
Text: Velia CAVALLINI
Translator: Jiaqi GAO
Proofreading: Calum BAIRD

 

Apr 23, 2021